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Old 03-10-2011, 08:48 AM
 
47,586 posts, read 34,599,452 times
Reputation: 21543
Quote:
Originally Posted by omigawd View Post
At my place of business, I've known many --- and they weren't getting company sponsored reimbursements or anything else. I'm not talking about big-name schools. I'm talking about community colleges where these young people were pursuing a Bachelors program. Keep in mind, these "kids" used their tax refund money, salaries (most worked one full time and one part time job to do it), buying text books used on the internet, doing some kind of "work-study", and doing whatever else they had to do to get their degree and be debt free upon graduation.

It can be done.
And those working students aren't the ones who could board an airplane every spring break and head to some resort or cruiseship for a week of booze and drugs and clubs.

When I went to college, there were those of us who would head to work and those who would head to their many parties. Those of us who worked didn't have to come to class while high or hungover and ended up doing as well or better as those who had nothing to do all week but try to show up for 15-18 hours of class.

A little work never hurt anyone.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:53 AM
 
Location: earth?
7,290 posts, read 4,994,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Hopes already explained this and your sarcasm is not becoming.

Why do you think the motive is to have the govt. make money off the loans? That's an odd motive to go to college, don't you think?

There is an exception for "emanicpated minors", but getting that status is hard. The parents have to provide no support whatsoever. See this:

Office of the Registrar - University of Colorado, Boulder
Nice way of ignoring the specific questions I asked. "Sarcasm is unbecoming?" I didn't know this forum had a bathing suit competition.

It is taking away from a student's independence at age 18 to FORCE parents to contribute to their offspring's college, or else penalize the student (in terms of loans and grants available).

I would like to see the documentation where the theory of how and why the government made this new rule is laid out so the specifics could be known.

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Old 03-10-2011, 08:55 AM
 
47,586 posts, read 34,599,452 times
Reputation: 21543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I'm sort of shocked by your believing that parents view college as a status symbol. It sounds like you don't believe college isn't a necessity. Yikes.


It's going to go up even higher. My state's govenor just cut 50% of the fundng to the state colleges in my state. 50%! The universities will have raise tuition to cover those losses.
Then universities should get creative and make it possible for the students.

It's absurd in the internet age that university tuition can only go up. Why not develop more on-line courses and allow students to get degrees from home?

There is no good reason that students must live in expensive dorms on campus. There can be distant learning - televised video classes, on-line classes and on-line books. Telecommuting to college is certainly feasible - but it doesn't bring in the big money the universities crave.

I know many people who got masters degrees on-line.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:03 AM
 
2,019 posts, read 2,563,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Give one actual example of a true college student paying for college as they go along. Not someone gettng company-sponsored tution reimbursement or the like, someone actually pursuing a bachelor's degree. You don't need to name names, of course.
One employee in my department went to a CUNY school, worked retail and paid for their education one semester at a time while living with a roommate. Graduated in four years in 2009 with a computer science degree. No loans.

Another employee went to a four year SUNY school and wanted the dorm experience and now has about $9k in loans to pay off. She worked all through college and paid as much as she could while going and kept loans to a minimum. Another CS grad, class of 2010.

A family member is taking the general ed courses at a community college for a pittance compared to what they would pay at a four year school and working and saving to transfer to a four year school in two years.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:06 AM
 
42,608 posts, read 47,961,058 times
Reputation: 28177
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
Nice way of ignoring the specific questions I asked. "Sarcasm is unbecoming?" I didn't know this forum had a bathing suit competition.

It is taking away from a student's independence at age 18 to FORCE parents to contribute to their offspring's college, or else penalize the student (in terms of loans and grants available).

I would like to see the documentation where the theory of how and why the government made this new rule is laid out so the specifics could be known.

I answered your specific questions here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/18213505-post20.html

Maybe you'll answer my specific question:

How could you not know it has been like this grants and student loans were created to help lower income students go to college?

As I suspected, it has been this way since the 1960s:

History of Federal College Grants | eHow.com

History of Student Loans in America | Random History

Why didn't you know about this?
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:16 AM
 
42,608 posts, read 47,961,058 times
Reputation: 28177
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's absurd in the internet age that university tuition can only go up. Why not develop more on-line courses and allow students to get degrees from home?
Most employers view degrees from "internet universities" as worthless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
There is no good reason that students must live in expensive dorms on campus.
Living on campus isn't the only expense universities have. Pitt is a state university located within a city. It has just as many commuter students as it does students staying in dorms. The tuition costs will need to be raised to pay for faculty and other important services and expenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
There can be distant learning - televised video classes, on-line classes and on-line books.
Publishers of textbooks won't charge less for on-line books. They're in the business of making money.

Colleges still have to pay instructors to teach online classes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Telecommuting to college is certainly feasible - but it doesn't bring in the big money the universities crave.
Actually, telecommuting brings in more money. Online courses cost THE EXACT SAME because they are the same courses offered in the classroom at the universities.

Universities aren't making a fortune off of room a board. There are many expenses associated with providing housing and food to students.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I know many people who got masters degrees on-line.
Their master's degree is only reputable if they are getting the degree from a college that is a highly regarded brick and mortor school. The universities that provide a majority of coures via online are not highly regarded.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:19 AM
Status: "Happy Halloween!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,272 posts, read 58,550,622 times
Reputation: 19761
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes you can - in fact many students from less than elite families do just that. They can save a big bundle of money by living at home, working, and taking 2 years at a community college, the core curriculum courses transfer at 100% to a 4 year university.

I worked 40-55 hours when I was in college and always took a full load. Out of a 24 hour day, you only need to sleep 6-8 hours, classes might take up to 5 hours if you have a lab and that leaves plenty of time for working. Plus there are 48 hours with weekends and no class at all.

I know kids working their way through college now. They work the whole year but in summer work more hours. They may have some loans out but like one niece graduated with 2 degrees and only $5000 in debts.

Since people believe that a degree means an automatic huge salary, they shouldn't believe taking loans out for it because they will be able to pay back their loans quickly with all that money they're hauling in.

If they aren't getting a degree that's going to make them any kind of wage, then it's a luxury and nothing else - fine if they can afford it but they should pay for it like everything else.

You have to be careful about these courses you take at CC. They may transfer to the state universities in your state, if you take the right courses, but they may not transfer to a private college or a state college in another state. Nor is it true that "the first two years are the same in every major", as some like to say. Generally one starts taking courses in one's major freshman year. Doing it this way can result in going to school longer than if one went to a four year college to begin with, and certainly requires careful planning.


Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
Nice way of ignoring the specific questions I asked. "Sarcasm is unbecoming?" I didn't know this forum had a bathing suit competition.

It is taking away from a student's independence at age 18 to FORCE parents to contribute to their offspring's college, or else penalize the student (in terms of loans and grants available).

I would like to see the documentation where the theory of how and why the government made this new rule is laid out so the specifics could be known.

You just get more and more sarcastic.

I think Hopes answered this, and you don't have to have the entire history of this issue to accept that it's policy. The rules are not "new", despite what you may think. When I went to college in the late 60s, people were not considered adults until age 21, so of course parents were responsible for them until that age. When the voting age was lowered to 18 in the early 70s, some states made 18 the age of majority. In addition, colleges are free to make whatever rules they please, as long as they're not breaking the law.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:19 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 914,771 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Most employers view degrees from "internet universities" as worthless.


Living on campus isn't the only expense universities have. Pitt is a state university located within a city. It has just as many commuter students as it does students staying in dorms. The tuition costs will need to be raised to pay for faculty and other important services and expenses.


Publishers of textbooks won't charge less for on-line books. They're in the business of making money.

Colleges still have to pay instructors to teach online classes.


Actually, telecommuting brings in more money. Online courses cost THE EXACT SAME because they are the same courses offered in the classroom at the universities.

Universities aren't making a fortune off of room a board. There are many expenses associated with providing housing and food to students.


Their master's degree is only reputable if they are getting the degree from a college that is a highly regarded brick and mortor school. The universities that provide a majority of coures via online are not highly regarded.
I will say, Hopes, that more and more schools are doing Masters degrees on line. I have my Masters from Boston University and there is no way to differentiate whether I attended class in my clothes or jammies.

I do agree though that if anyone thinks that University of Phoenix degree is worth something they are sorely mistaken.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:24 AM
 
42,608 posts, read 47,961,058 times
Reputation: 28177
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleasach View Post
Another employee went to a four year SUNY school and wanted the dorm experience and now has about $9k in loans to pay off. She worked all through college and paid as much as she could while going and kept loans to a minimum. Another CS grad, class of 2010.
9k for a four year dorm experience is actually not a bad deal. That's only $2,250 a year.

I perfer to pay for my children's college expenses. They work only for their spending money.

The guidelines say I can afford X amount of money. Guess what? It's true! I can afford it!

Most parents who are required to pay, but say they can't afford to pay, are living above their means.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:28 AM
 
42,608 posts, read 47,961,058 times
Reputation: 28177
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMassachusetts View Post
I will say, Hopes, that more and more schools are doing Masters degrees on line. I have my Masters from Boston University and there is no way to differentiate whether I attended class in my clothes or jammies.
That was my point.

Boston University is a highly respected brick and mortar school. That's why your masters has value.

If Boston University stopped teaching brick and mortar classes, the university would become less respectable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMassachusetts View Post
I do agree though that if anyone thinks that University of Phoenix degree is worth something they are sorely mistaken.
Exactly. Degrees from Phoenix and Devry had more value prior to the universities becoming mainly online schools.
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