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Old 06-09-2011, 11:37 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 88,811,587 times
Reputation: 30254

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Wow - she's 18 so she should be able to live as an adult - and if she doesn't go to school then her parents can't claim her as a dependent, if she does go even if someone else is supporting her and paying her way, they get to claim her as a dependent?
That's not possible. She can claim herself though.

Quote:
In general, to be a taxpayer’s qualifying child, a person must satisfy four tests:

Relationship — the taxpayer’s child or stepchild (whether by blood or adoption), foster child, sibling or stepsibling, or a descendant of one of these.
Residence — has the same principal residence as the taxpayer for more than half the tax year. Exceptions apply, in certain cases, for children of divorced or separated parents, kidnapped children, temporary absences, and for children who were born or died during the year.
Age — must be under the age of 19 at the end of the tax year, or under the age of 24 if a full-time student for at least five months of the year, or be permanently and totally disabled at any time during the year.
Support — did not provide more than one-half of his/her own support for the year.

A ?Qualifying Child?
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think Saddad should talk to the parents. Lay down the law and give them two options but don't tell them he is planning to pay for anything. If they don't pitch in or at least turn over their financial information, then tell them she's not going to be able to go to college and they lose her as a dependent at that point and of course if they were to claim her, they could be reported to the IRS for fraud.

Or they give her information so she can apply for loans or agree to emancipate her. And talking to a lawyer wouldn't hurt.
Since they kicked her out before 6 months of the year, she can claim herself when she does taxes next year IF she gets a job so she can file taxes.

TK's parents wouldn't be motivated to provide the information simply to get a dependent for tax purposes. The one parent was angry when the other parent claimed him this year. But found out when calling to find out if TK claimed himself. Both parents (divorced, separate households) are well aware they don't have a right to claim him as a dependent next year now that he's 18 and not living with them.

If he went to them and dangled a carrot of allowing them to claim him, they wouldn't likely do it. And it's very possible, based on the way they always broke promises, that if they did agree to do it, they would claim him and then break their part of the deal by not providing the tax information for the grant applications.

When these types of families get angry, there is very little you can rely upon them for.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:43 PM
 
Location: New York City
2,814 posts, read 5,849,060 times
Reputation: 3142
I think that if this girl is 18yo she should be eligible for food stamps and some public assistance. If Saddad states that he is renting her a room she might be able to get a small amt. of rent money from welfare. There is really no reason for Saddad to support her financially. I didn't really understand her story. Her parents and siblings live with the GPs and left her alone in their home, but took away her key? Until you speak with the parents you won't know the other side of the story. For all you know they think she is missing. Something doesn't sound right.

Saddad, for all you know she could be pregnant right now. I would be very curious to hear what the parents are saying even though they sound like neglectful, awful people. You also want to know what her Psych. history is. How long has your family known her?
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,945,916 times
Reputation: 2620
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I have a friend who was in this situation (parents refused to help pay for school and also refused to turn over their financial info) and she was able to file a court case for "abandonment" wh/ then allowed the Financial Aid officer to award assistance. I don't know if this is a per state situation, or per school situation, but I am just throwing that out there in case it is something the OP might discuss with his attorney.
My sister was kicked out of the house when she turned 18. She paid for 2 years of community college on her own, and now it's time for her to transfer to the 4 year school. She applied for financial aid, and in order to qualify without our parents' info, she had to prove "abandonment" as stated above. The school was able to tell her the steps to prove abandonment, which included my writing a letter explaining the details of her situation.

More info on dependency overrides:
FinAid | Professional Judgment | Dependency Overrides
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:57 AM
 
Location: colorado
2,788 posts, read 4,229,684 times
Reputation: 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by SadDad View Post
I’m not entirely sure where to go with this so just asking for ideas or links/leads. I’m giving some back-story as it will inevitable be asked for or assumed.

My DD’s friend got thrown out of her house 3 weeks prior to HS graduation. She is 18. A few months prior her (now) X-BF got her liquored up and tried to take advantage of the situation, she escaped and wound up at our house that night (28 degrees, no shoes, about 11pm on a Saturday). She was locked out of her house that night. Well, not really locked out as that phrase implies. Her parents and 3 other siblings stay with the GPs in another town. They do not give F a key and she basically needs to fend for herself during the school week. She was not given a key as punishment for being on a sports team and having interests outside the house. He younger sister is “home-schooled”, older brother plays xbox 24/7 at the GPs, and older sister was told she would not be allowed to marry her fiancé if she spoke to F.

She never reported any of this to anyone because she had blacked out and was embarrassed. About a month after she broke up with him he tells her parents she did a train with him and her friends and they toss her. That was 4 weeks ago. Getting to know her I find the X’s story so full of BS it is unfathomable to understand how her parents could think otherwise.

Last night the X T/P’d the house and wrote “C” all over the porch. To me, if there was any doubt whatsofreekingever last night should have cleared it up. F calls her mother and mom blames her, calls her a ***** (yet again) and tells her to clean it up.

It has become somewhat clear this is just a convenient story for getting rid of her. The true problem is that she wants an outside life and doesn’t want to sit at home 24/7. If they do reconcile this would likely happen again. She has no ID (parents wouldn’t let her drive), apparently her mom won’t give her her birth certificate, SS card, or even the pharmacy where her medicine is filled from (mom showed up with a baggie of pills for her – I need to validate it is Zoloft and it is for her, then track down the pharmacy). Getting a duplicate B/C and SS card is time consuming, but can be done. The same is true with getting her a bank account and a D/L. As long as she stays under my roof she will not be let out to dry.

She starts at the local CC this fall and is on a full ride. Given the alternatives I’ll pay for the books and incidentals. I earn a good salary and this is not a huge issue. But, here is the problem. She wants to be a teacher and would require at least another 2 years, perhaps a Masters. I figure she would qualify for a host of needs based programs since she is on her own. I spoke with the FA office at a national university (top 10 ranking for education) to see what not to do and, lo and behold, she doesn’t. The university will not consider applications without the parental information. Even if they did her parents earn too much for the needs based grants. This is also true of Pell Grants. The federal government will not consider an application without the parental information. This is true even if she can prove she is on her own and files her own 1040Z. The only thing proving the situation will do is allow her an additional $5,000 in student loans. In reality if it were different it would be open up all the grants to a massive amount of fraud – so I do understand; but this girl is getting hammered here already. I am willing to help, but at this late date the amount is somewhat limited to books and incidentals. Does anyone have any suggestion as to funding? Loans would leave her $27K - $54K short. Work would help too. But I’d rather she not have to bank on them as her only alternative.

She is a nice kid, and I am truly offended at her parent’s actions.

BTW, I understand she has been with us for 1 month and there are a whole lot of unresolved issues that will develop. Things will likely change. What I am doing is a little advance planning to see what the options are in the event she is still with us. I am an actuary and tend to look at things over a long horizon. I am also consulting my attorney regarding any legal issues I may open myself to.

Im not getting your abreviations?
Have you contacted an attorney?
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:55 AM
 
345 posts, read 401,243 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by passwithoutatrace View Post
She has at least 2 years of community college before she needs to start worrying about paying for further education. Get through that before you start worrying about other stuff. If she does well in school she can apply for loans, scholarships, internships for credits, get a job, etc.
I'm contingency planning across several scenarios. Waiting until the need arises when looking at $20k - $40k is a recipe for disaster.
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:23 PM
 
345 posts, read 401,243 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
SadDad,

You and I are in the same situation, both taking children into our homes who were discarded by their parents. I read what you write about her parents, and it's like reading about TK's parents. (TK is a nickname I use for the internet that stands for "The Kid".)

When he broke his hand, they wouldn't even provide the health insurance information. We found the information via calling the parent's employer to find out which company and then calling the health insurance company to get the policy number. He has been to the ER, the orthopedic surgeon, had surgery and soon will start physical therapy that will last the entire summer. He had a job, but he can no longer work until his hand has recovered, at which time his employer will put him back on the schedule.

After he was living here for a few weeks, I learned that he came here with only 3 pair of underwear to his name. OMGoodness. I took him right out to the store to pick out underwear, socks, etc. I'm covering his co-pays for his doctor's appointments. My husband insists that we provide necessities: food, clothing, shelter, medical care, and whatever we can do to help him with his education. I won't give him an allowance, but I do pay for special occassions---like the school picnic at the amusement park, etc. Overall, I've discovered that it's not too expensive to have a new person in our household.

We're not prepared for the education issues yet. I've been on top of trying to figure out his college funding since day one but he is having a hard time deciding if he wants to attend college, trade school or whatever. Look into JobCorps. If she's not qualifying for grants based on her parents' income, she needs to initiate some type of action that can provide proof that her relationship with her parents is severed. Also, there is special government funding available for students who are pursuing education degrees. Definitely do some research to find those.

I wish you the best of luck. If you ever want to talk to me, just send me a DM.

Thank you and I respect your advise. I'll DM on Tuesday.

F showed up on a night when it was 43 degrees with no shoes and the clothes on her back. Fortunately it warmed up over the weekend.

Also, I give her some cash from time-to-time and will formalize it when she opens a bank account. My daughter works and has a big heart. The last thing I want is for DD to give her money. By giving F an allowance of ~$20/wk this negates that possibility to a large degree.

Regarding F getting a job: currently she has no ID, it may take a while to gather / replace it. Further, there really is no place she can get to without a car. So finding something for the summer seems out. Once she has ID and is mobile then she needs to work. Until then I’m covering her costs. Given summer clothing are a lot cheaper than winter this isn’t the end of the world. My DD was to use her paychecks to cover some clothes, but I’m now covering that too so there is no illusion of inequity. DD is instead putting the bulk of her pay into her savings account for college living expenses (which I was going to cover anyway so it is more of a shift rather than an additional cost, they don’t know that though).

Today is her med check. Her mother is meeting her at the psych, but my DD is driving her both ways. I'm not sure what to make of this.

1) I’ve been prompting F to get B/C, SS Card, HI Card, and Rx bottles. This may have prompted some maternal instinct that this isn’t a game. But, the T/Ping incident happened after these were requested (several times).

2) Mother wants damage control with the psychiatrist.

3) Since her mother gives her the Rx’s in a baggie there may be some damage control.

Both parents seem to be control freaks.

Regarding education expenses: I've had about 6+ years lead time setting up DDs college account which includes future contributions. Layering in another full load of expenses I cannot do at this point. I can cover some, but not nearly all. also would like her to avoid a heavy debt load, especially for a teacher's salary.

BTW, I’ll be offline until Monday or Tuesday night.

Thanks. Hope all is well with TK.

Last edited by SadDad; 06-10-2011 at 12:57 PM.. Reason: formatting
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:23 PM
 
1,067 posts, read 1,374,673 times
Reputation: 1070
Quote:
Originally Posted by SadDad View Post
I’m not entirely sure where to go with this so just asking for ideas or links/leads. I’m giving some back-story as it will inevitable be asked for or assumed.

My DD’s friend got thrown out of her house 3 weeks prior to HS graduation. She is 18. A few months prior her (now) X-BF got her liquored up and tried to take advantage of the situation, she escaped and wound up at our house that night (28 degrees, no shoes, about 11pm on a Saturday). She was locked out of her house that night. Well, not really locked out as that phrase implies. Her parents and 3 other siblings stay with the GPs in another town. They do not give F a key and she basically needs to fend for herself during the school week. She was not given a key as punishment for being on a sports team and having interests outside the house. He younger sister is “home-schooled”, older brother plays xbox 24/7 at the GPs, and older sister was told she would not be allowed to marry her fiancé if she spoke to F.

She never reported any of this to anyone because she had blacked out and was embarrassed. About a month after she broke up with him he tells her parents she did a train with him and her friends and they toss her. That was 4 weeks ago. Getting to know her I find the X’s story so full of BS it is unfathomable to understand how her parents could think otherwise.

Last night the X T/P’d the house and wrote “C” all over the porch. To me, if there was any doubt whatsofreekingever last night should have cleared it up. F calls her mother and mom blames her, calls her a ***** (yet again) and tells her to clean it up.

It has become somewhat clear this is just a convenient story for getting rid of her. The true problem is that she wants an outside life and doesn’t want to sit at home 24/7. If they do reconcile this would likely happen again. She has no ID (parents wouldn’t let her drive), apparently her mom won’t give her her birth certificate, SS card, or even the pharmacy where her medicine is filled from (mom showed up with a baggie of pills for her – I need to validate it is Zoloft and it is for her, then track down the pharmacy). Getting a duplicate B/C and SS card is time consuming, but can be done. The same is true with getting her a bank account and a D/L. As long as she stays under my roof she will not be let out to dry.

She starts at the local CC this fall and is on a full ride. Given the alternatives I’ll pay for the books and incidentals. I earn a good salary and this is not a huge issue. But, here is the problem. She wants to be a teacher and would require at least another 2 years, perhaps a Masters. I figure she would qualify for a host of needs based programs since she is on her own. I spoke with the FA office at a national university (top 10 ranking for education) to see what not to do and, lo and behold, she doesn’t. The university will not consider applications without the parental information. Even if they did her parents earn too much for the needs based grants. This is also true of Pell Grants. The federal government will not consider an application without the parental information. This is true even if she can prove she is on her own and files her own 1040Z. The only thing proving the situation will do is allow her an additional $5,000 in student loans. In reality if it were different it would be open up all the grants to a massive amount of fraud – so I do understand; but this girl is getting hammered here already. I am willing to help, but at this late date the amount is somewhat limited to books and incidentals. Does anyone have any suggestion as to funding? Loans would leave her $27K - $54K short. Work would help too. But I’d rather she not have to bank on them as her only alternative.

She is a nice kid, and I am truly offended at her parent’s actions.

BTW, I understand she has been with us for 1 month and there are a whole lot of unresolved issues that will develop. Things will likely change. What I am doing is a little advance planning to see what the options are in the event she is still with us. I am an actuary and tend to look at things over a long horizon. I am also consulting my attorney regarding any legal issues I may open myself to.

when I applied for college thye said you have to be over 25, have a child or be married to not file under your parents. But they said there are ways to go around that for certain situations speak with a school guidance counsler
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:44 PM
 
345 posts, read 401,243 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Wow - she's 18 so she should be able to live as an adult - and if she doesn't go to school then her parents can't claim her as a dependent, if she does go even if someone else is supporting her and paying her way, they get to claim her as a dependent?

Basically he who files first gets the deduction. If the NCP files with the child as a dependent prior to the CP filing then the NCP gets the deduction. It also works that way on mortgage interest, ... The wronged party needs to then battle the IRS.
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:48 PM
 
345 posts, read 401,243 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
That's not possible. She can claim herself though.


Even without an income I believe she can claim herself. It would at least preclude the parents from claiming her.

When these types of families get angry, there is very little you can rely upon them for.

- true dat
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:51 PM
 
345 posts, read 401,243 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimme it View Post
I think that if this girl is 18yo she should be eligible for food stamps and some public assistance. If Saddad states that he is renting her a room she might be able to get a small amt. of rent money from welfare. There is really no reason for Saddad to support her financially. I didn't really understand her story. Her parents and siblings live with the GPs and left her alone in their home, but took away her key? Until you speak with the parents you won't know the other side of the story. For all you know they think she is missing. Something doesn't sound right.

* too much of a hassle to claim rent

Saddad, for all you know she could be pregnant right now.

* She's not pregnant.

I would be very curious to hear what the parents are saying even though they sound like neglectful, awful people. You also want to know what her Psych. history is. How long has your family known her?

about a year.

psych history:

OCD (not OCPD) and GAD. Both are stress induced. They have abated somewhat. She hasn't had a panic attack since she's moved in with us. Even though it is still temporary there seems to be more stability in her life. Plus, the lack of communication with the parents likely has something to do with this. When my DD cut ties with her mother about a year ago her behavior changed for the better and had a better life outlook.

Last edited by SadDad; 06-10-2011 at 12:56 PM.. Reason: added
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