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Now this is a totally different debate but, I'm convinced the risk isn't spending too little time with our kids. It's too much. Today's full time working mom is spending more time on her kids than a 1970's SAHM. Now, logically, if a 1970's SAHM was spending enough time with her kids, did they need more? Perhaps more is just spoiling them. As a teacher, I see kids who have, obviously, been coddled their entire lives (I've never tried to discern if they had SAHM's or not as I believe this problem exists in both camps). The fact is ALL of our children are getting way more mom and caretaker time than kids in the past did. To be honest, I'm thinking this increase in time was never needed and I'm thinking it does more harm than good. Perhaps we need to get back to the days when moms tossed their kids out the back door and told them to come home when the dinner bell rang. Back to a time when mom's didn't worry about Mommy and Me classes. When they used baby tenders (a box used in pioneer days to keep a toddler confined so they weren't in the way and didn't get into anything) and play pens and kids learned to occupy themselves. I really have to wonder about the sharp increases we've seen in ADD and ADHD. I wonder if it's simply lack of self control due to never having to actually use self control. When I look at the kids I teach, I don't see issues stemming from too little mommy time. I see issues that likely could stem from too much mommy time.
Wow. Yea, let's all start locking our kids up in a box, or better yet, tying them to bedposts. It's gotta be healthier for a toddler than running around, exploring, and, god forbid, spending quality time with mom...
It's kind of scary that you're a teacher...sure hope my kids never end up in a class taught by a person with such views
Wow. Yea, let's all start locking our kids up in a box, or better yet, tying them to bedposts. It's gotta be healthier for a toddler than running around, exploring, and, god forbid, spending quality time with mom...
It's kind of scary that you're a teacher...sure hope my kids never end up in a class taught by a person with such views
Ironically, I have run into more teachers like her than not... My son's current teacher tells children, who are in her SPED, that their behaviors are naughty and that they are bad children. I was told that my son was naughty, when he had a tantrum after being told he couldn't go inside in 90 degree heat during gym (he has autism and has heat sensitivity due to the medication he is on).
Wow. Yea, let's all start locking our kids up in a box, or better yet, tying them to bedposts. It's gotta be healthier for a toddler than running around, exploring, and, god forbid, spending quality time with mom...
It's kind of scary that you're a teacher...sure hope my kids never end up in a class taught by a person with such views
ZOOOMMMM....That was the point of that post going right over your head.... I'm not advocating putting kids in boxes, only pointing out that kids seemed to turn out better when we weren't fawning all over them. For all the exploring they do, they lack creativity and inquisitiveness. My personal opinoin is they've had mom or a dcp doing too much for them. They need to figure out how to entertain themselves. How to just sit and think. The don't need to be engaged every minute. Perhaps those boxes and play pens weren't so bad in concept.
I think our kids are too entertained these days. I think they have too much done for them. I think they are not learning to think for themselves as a result. When I was a kid, my mom kicked us out of the house and told us to come back when the street lights came on from a pretty early age. I used to go exploring in the woods. Got lost a few times....learned NOT to ride my bike down the hill by the creek and that you really shouldn't eat those red berries that grow back by the walnut trees. I performed a lot of experiments out there. Ran home for a few bandaids from some of them too...but, I'm who I am because I was given the freedom to figure out what worked and what didn't on my own without mom hovering over me. She was great at the "I told you so" lectures after my experiments though.
When I was growing up, no body fretted over how much time they spent with baby. Baby got changed and put in a play pen while the adults did adult things. For all our efforts and increases in time with our kids, we don't have one shred of benefit for our kids to show for it. In fact, our children may be more fragile than we were.
Ironically, I have run into more teachers like her than not... My son's current teacher tells children, who are in her SPED, that their behaviors are naughty and that they are bad children. I was told that my son was naughty, when he had a tantrum after being told he couldn't go inside in 90 degree heat during gym (he has autism and has heat sensitivity due to the medication he is on).
Where do you get me telling kids their behaviors are naughty from my thinking that leaving our kids to figure out to entertain themselves might be a good thing??? Did you hurt yourself on that leap there??
If there isn't a notable difference in outcomes, why are are you still trying so darn hard to convince us that your way is best? No one in this thread has criticized you for working, we've only defended ourselves against your gross generalizations and your claim that we are "worthless." If your point is "it doesn't matter" can't we just be done with this?
I have never said YOU are worthless or what you do is useless (you do the same things I do as a mom). Moms are, equally, valuable regardless of their working status. Finances aside, WM's and SAHM's accomplish the same things. When finances are considered, however, WM's do improve their children's outcomes because, many of us have the power to raise our children's SES. What I've said is SAH is unnecessary and it is unnecessary. Kids do just fine regardless of whether or not mom works for a living. They can, however, do better if she does if her income happens to raise their SES. If she doesn't have the ability to raise their SES, it's irrelevent which she chooses.
Where do you get me telling kids their behaviors are naughty from my thinking that leaving our kids to figure out to entertain themselves might be a good thing??? Did you hurt yourself on that leap there??
I have never said YOU are worthless or what you do is useless (you do the same things I do as a mom). Moms are, equally, valuable regardless of their working status. Finances aside, WM's and SAHM's accomplish the same things. When finances are considered, however, WM's do improve their children's outcomes because, many of us have the power to raise our children's SES. What I've said is SAH is unnecessary and it is unnecessary. Kids do just fine regardless of whether or not mom works for a living. They can, however, do better if she does if her income happens to raise their SES.
You have said over and over and over again that a SAHMs role is unnecessary.
Here are just a few synonyms for unnecessary: expendable, irrelevant, worthless
I have never said YOU are worthless or what you do is useless (you do the same things I do as a mom). Moms are, equally, valuable regardless of their working status. Finances aside, WM's and SAHM's accomplish the same things. When finances are considered, however, WM's do improve their children's outcomes because, many of us have the power to raise our children's SES. What I've said is SAH is unnecessary and it is unnecessary. Kids do just fine regardless of whether or not mom works for a living. They can, however, do better if she does if her income happens to raise their SES. If she doesn't have the ability to raise their SES, it's irrelevent which she chooses.
You said SAHM's are worthless. I am a SAHM currently. Therefore, I am worthless in your eyes. You think everything can be measured with a monetary value. You say worthless. I say PRICELESS.
Having 2 incomes isn't always "necessary" but people do it. People do a lot of things that aren't necessary. If it makes them happy, leave them alone.
LOL, a summation of several studies is actually better than one.
That is a lie. A press release is not a study. Shame on you for pretending to be a scientist and then telling people that a press release for A UNPUBLISHED study is "better" than a peer reviewed published study.
Quote:
No, this isn't the actual study but it has all the numbers you need. It's a discussion of the study by a reputable source. Peer review articles are actually better than the studies themselves as it can be difficult to glean data from the raw data. I'm fine with Cambridge university, what problem do you have with them as a source of discussion for a time study?
First, it was Cornell AND IT WAS A PRESS RELEASE NOT A STUDY. You are either a sham or are completely willing to fabricate information to make a point.
Second, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about as a "Scientist" and have lost ALL credibility with me. A peer reviewed article IS A STUDY. What you produced is a press release despite being asked for study multiple times. A scientist or someone with scientific training would KNOW that the reason you give the study is because it is important to not accept assumptions of the person representing the data. Something you have done here OVER AND OVER again.
I sincerely hope no one ever takes you at your word in a debate on this forum again. You are either misrepresenting yourself as someone with scientific training or your are deliberately misrepresenting the science.
ZOOOMMMM....That was the point of that post going right over your head.... I'm not advocating putting kids in boxes, only pointing out that kids seemed to turn out better when we weren't fawning all over them. For all the exploring they do, they lack creativity and inquisitiveness. My personal opinoin is they've had mom or a dcp doing too much for them. They need to figure out how to entertain themselves. How to just sit and think. The don't need to be engaged every minute. Perhaps those boxes and play pens weren't so bad in concept.
I think our kids are too entertained these days. I think they have too much done for them. I think they are not learning to think for themselves as a result. When I was a kid, my mom kicked us out of the house and told us to come back when the street lights came on from a pretty early age. I used to go exploring in the woods. Got lost a few times....learned NOT to ride my bike down the hill by the creek and that you really shouldn't eat those red berries that grow back by the walnut trees. I performed a lot of experiments out there. Ran home for a few bandaids from some of them too...but, I'm who I am because I was given the freedom to figure out what worked and what didn't on my own without mom hovering over me. She was great at the "I told you so" lectures after my experiments though.
When I was growing up, no body fretted over how much time they spent with baby. Baby got changed and put in a play pen while the adults did adult things. For all our efforts and increases in time with our kids, we don't have one shred of benefit for our kids to show for it. In fact, our children may be more fragile than we were.
I am going to play my "not me" card here. Let me give you a list of SOME of the things DD did today. She is 6 by the way. She got up. Picked out her own clothes. Took the dog out. Made all 3 of us breakfast (3 cheese & spinach omelets with toast and coffee/juice). Cleaned up the kitchen. Went back to her room to make her bed. Worked on her "life sized barbie house" she is making out of cardboard boxes. Went outside and played with her friends. Came back home and fed the dog and then took her out again. Asked me if I needed a drink as she walked by. Went out to the backyard where she worked on her vegetable garden for a while.
We did do plenty of things together as well, but can you please tell me from my list of just a FEW of the things DD did today where I was entertaining her too much, coddled her too much, or was hovering in any way?
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Did you hurt yourself on that leap there??