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And right here it is! This is the talk that some parents have with their kids and this is why their kids get bullied! Because people (especially school kids) do NOT accept drastic differences in other kids. Because those kids do NOT leave well enough alone! Telling your kid "Screw those other kids, you just do what you WANNA do!", IS setting your kids up to be tormented and isolated. NO, they don't have to be exactly like other kids, but they DO need to pay attention to what IS accepted. If they can't and won't do so, they are GOING to have their lives made miserable.
You can be an individual without being an extremist. For some people, that's just not good enough. They expect everyone ELSE to change THEIR views and beliefs in order to adapt to THEM. It's the same old BS that gets talked about on here all the time. Don't adapt yourself at all. Expect everyone else to change!
Although I understand the point you're making about kids being cruel to anyone who doesn't conform to what the standard of the day is, I think having candid conversations with kids who are or choose to be/look "different" from the norm about the narrow-mindedness of the conformists and prepping them how to deal with potential fall-out is a more effective strategy than encouraging conformism or kow-towing to whatever the "popular" kids think. IMO, kids who choose to wear something different were most likely isolated and tortured for being different long before they chose whatever outfits - I don't see the wardrobe choices as causal.
Regardless of how extreme a kid or teen appears, it is never ok to torture them, make their lives miserable, or subject them to violence. Whether my kids end up looking just like everyone else or as far from it as possible, I am teaching them that everyone deserves respect - you don't have to be friendly with everyone, but you do need to treat everyone with dignity. I will also be teaching them that not every parent teaches their kids to treat others with respect, regardless of the their own personal beliefs. There is a big difference between expecting someone to change their beliefs and expecting them to treat everyone as a human being.
And right here it is! This is the talk that some parents have with their kids and this is why their kids get bullied! Because people (especially school kids) do NOT accept drastic differences in other kids. Because those kids do NOT leave well enough alone! Telling your kid "Screw those other kids, you just do what you WANNA do!", IS setting your kids up to be tormented and isolated. NO, they don't have to be exactly like other kids, but they DO need to pay attention to what IS accepted. If they can't and won't do so, they are GOING to have their lives made miserable.
You can be an individual without being an extremist. For some people, that's just not good enough. They expect everyone ELSE to change THEIR views and beliefs in order to adapt to THEM. It's the same old BS that gets talked about on here all the time. Don't adapt yourself at all. Expect everyone else to change!
What's wrong with being an extremist. These kids aren't asking others to adapt to them or to change their beliefs. All they want is to be left alone to live their own way, they aren't trying to make others live their way.
What's wrong with teaching kids to tolerate differences, and teaching them not to be afraid of others not like them?
Although I understand the point you're making about kids being cruel to anyone who doesn't conform to what the standard of the day is, I think having candid conversations with kids who are or choose to be/look "different" from the norm about the narrow-mindedness of the conformists and prepping them how to deal with potential fall-out is a more effective strategy than encouraging conformism or kow-towing to whatever the "popular"kids think. IMO, kids who choose to wear something different were most likely isolated and tortured for being different long before they chose whatever outfits - I don't see the wardrobe choices as causal.
Regardless of how extreme a kid or teen appears, it is never ok to torture them, make their lives miserable, or subject them to violence. Whether my kids end up looking just like everyone else or as far from it as possible, I am teaching them that everyone deserves respect - you don't have to be friendly with everyone, but you do need to treat everyone with dignity. I will also be teaching them that not every parent teaches their kids to treat others with respect, regardless of the their own personal beliefs. There is a big difference between expecting someone to change their beliefs and expecting them to treat everyone as a human being.
I absolutely agree with this entire post. I do! It's also exactly how I have raised my children, and the same talks I've had with them. My children flat out accept people for who they are and they and would never mistreat other people, regardless of what they wear, how they dress, etc. My kids were very non-conformist and had their own style. They didn't care what anyone else wore, they were very "conservative", had no tatoos or piercings, but never treated anyone differently if they did. The trouble is, there are waaay too many parents and kids out there who ARE intolerant and to stray too far out of the lines (at least in OUR small town), is setting yourself up for a whole lot of flack and unacceptance from a whole lot of people!
What's wrong with being an extremist. These kids aren't asking others to adapt to them or to change their beliefs. All they want is to be left alone to live their own way, they aren't trying to make others live their way.
What's wrong with teaching kids to tolerate differences, and teaching them not to be afraid of others not like them?
TT, there's not a darn thing wrong with teaching kids to tolerate differences and letting them know that they should NEVER be afraid of someone, just because they're not like them. That's exactly how I raised my kids. Unfortunately, so very many people do NOT teach their kids those things, so you also have to make your kids aware of that as well. The decision will ultimately be theirs, but at least they've been well informed and warned that there ARE people who WILL not accept you.
You know, I guess one of the reasons that this subject hits home so hard with me is this. There was a dear boy who went to school with one of my kids. All of my children adored him. Heck, there really weren't too many people who DIDN'T love him. He was so incredibly funny, the sweetest, kindest, give-you-the-shirt-off-his-back kind of boy. He was so very gifted in the arts and was in every school play, from 1st grade on. He was also effeminate.
As he got up into high school, more and more kids (especially the boys) started making fun of him, for the way he walked, the way he dressed. He would wear feminine clothes, walk in an exaggerated feminine way, then cry his poor heart out because some of the other kids were making fun of him. He worked his tail off in high school, getting good grades and ended up with some pretty decent scholarship funds to attend a great college.
Although he was sad to leave behind the people who really did love him, just the way he was, there was a part of him that was SO relieved to get out of this small town, go where there were more people "like him", so that he could finally feel accepted for who he was. He wanted to find love so badly and had never felt accepted in that way in our home town. He just KNEW he'd find love once he got to the "big city". He was wrong. He found himself being just as unaccepted there as he had here. In fact, he was even lonlier there than he was here, because he didn't even have any of his lifelong friends there with him.
Earlier this year....he hung himself. He couldn't bear the lonliness any longer. He left a suicide note for his friends and family, stating that no matter what he did, no matter how hard he tried, he never felt accepted for who he was. No matter how hard he tried, and how desperately he wanted to find love, because he had SO much to give....he couldn't handle the rejection any longer. Life was no longer worth living. He was so sorry for the pain his suicide was going to cause those how did care about him, but he simply couldn't live one more day with HIS pain.
Yes, so if I sound intolerant or like a conformist....I'll take the flak. I would so much rather have my kids conform "a bit", than to live out on the edge, with no fear of consequences or backlash, and have them find themselves too despondent to continue to live...one...more....day.
TT, there's not a darn thing wrong with teaching kids to tolerate differences and letting them know that they should NEVER be afraid of someone, just because they're not like them. That's exactly how I raised my kids. Unfortunately, so very many people do NOT teach their kids those things, so you also have to make your kids aware of that as well. The decision will ultimately be theirs, but at least they've been well informed and warned that there ARE people who WILL not accept you.
You know, I guess one of the reasons that this subject hits home so hard with me is this. There was a dear boy who went to school with one of my kids. All of my children adored him. Heck, there really weren't too many people who DIDN'T love him. He was so incredibly funny, the sweetest, kindest, give-you-the-shirt-off-his-back kind of boy. He was so very gifted in the arts and was in every school play, from 1st grade on. He was also effeminate.
As he got up into high school, more and more kids (especially the boys) started making fun of him, for the way he walked, the way he dressed. He would wear feminine clothes, walk in an exaggerated feminine way, then cry his poor heart out because some of the other kids were making fun of him. He worked his tail off in high school, getting good grades and ended up with some pretty decent scholarship funds to attend a great college.
Although he was sad to leave behind the people who really did love him, just the way he was, there was a part of him that was SO relieved to get out of this small town, go where there were more people "like him", so that he could finally feel accepted for who he was. He wanted to find love so badly and had never felt accepted in that way in our home town. He just KNEW he'd find love once he got to the "big city". He was wrong. He found himself being just as unaccepted there as he had here. In fact, he was even lonlier there than he was here, because he didn't even have any of his lifelong friends there with him.
Earlier this year....he hung himself. He couldn't bear the lonliness any longer. He left a suicide note for his friends and family, stating that no matter what he did, no matter how hard he tried, he never felt accepted for who he was. No matter how hard he tried, and how desperately he wanted to find love, because he had SO much to give....he couldn't handle the rejection any longer. Life was no longer worth living. He was so sorry for the pain his suicide was going to cause those how did care about him, but he simply couldn't live one more day with HIS pain.
Yes, so if I sound intolerant or like a conformist....I'll take the flak. I would so much rather have my kids conform "a bit", than to live out on the edge, with no fear of consequences or backlash, and have them find themselves too despondent to continue to live...one...more....day.
That is a heartbreaking story. I am sorry for your family and community's loss.
I was a behavior therapist with the chronically suicidal - specializing in work with adolescents. I encountered the kind of loneliness and anguish that comes from being or feeling unaccepted every day. I have no illusions about how cruel and ignorant people can be and I would still say the same as in my earlier post. Living a lie or "toning it down" to escape others' judgments can have serious psychological ramifications as much as constant ridicule can. I think preparing our kids for how to cope with possible negative reactions while still encouraging them to be themselves with pride, in whatever way that manifests itself, helps kids to both feel accepted and learn how to problem solve highly emotionally-charged situations.
No parent wants their child to resort to suicide. I just disagree that conforming "a bit" is the way I'd choose to avoid it, although I see what you're saying.
The only parents I know who set their kids up for failure are the ones with poor boundaries, who treat their kids as friends, I have known parents who do drugs with their kids, now that is setting kids up for a messed up life!
That is a heartbreaking story. I am sorry for your family and community's loss.
I was a behavior therapist with the chronically suicidal - specializing in work with adolescents. I encountered the kind of loneliness and anguish that comes from being or feeling unaccepted every day. I have no illusions about how cruel and ignorant people can be and I would still say the same as in my earlier post. Living a lie or "toning it down" to escape others' judgments can have serious psychological ramifications as much as constant ridicule can. I think preparing our kids for how to cope with possible negative reactions while still encouraging them to be themselves with pride, in whatever way that manifests itself, helps kids to both feel accepted and learn how to problem solve highly emotionally-charged situations.
No parent wants their child to resort to suicide. I just disagree that conforming "a bit" is the way I'd choose to avoid it, although I see what you're saying.
I do understand what you're saying and understand where you're coming from. Fortunately though, my kids didn't really have to "hide" who they really were. They were just naturally not the kind of kids who gave a whit about "fads" or what the general crowd considered cool. Even if it was what everyone else was doing, if my kids didn't think it was cool, they didn't do it. Most of my kids never did any of it! TG! They took the crap that came their way and simply said, "Hey, shut up! If I'm cool enough to not judge you for doing those things, why can't you be cool enough to NOT judge ME for not doing them?"
My kids ended up being so well respected and liked. They still had friends who did all of the things they chose not to do. They just chose not to follow the same path. Okay....well 3 out of 4 aint bad!
The things is are people suggesting that parents of children who really are different, be it eccentric, effeminate, hippies, or whatever, try to force them to change to fit in? That's a task that seldom ends well. I have seldom met intolerant children who do not have intolerant parents. We are the ones to be setting precedents, teaching our children to be tolerant, and how to deal with people who are different to them. And if they are the ones that are different, then providing them with a safe and understanding place to be when they are hurt by the outside world.
One of my favorite movies along these lines is Ma Vie En Rose about a boy who just is different.
The things is are people suggesting that parents of children who really are different, be it eccentric, effeminate, hippies, or whatever, try to force them to change to fit in? That's a task that seldom ends well. I have seldom met intolerant children who do not have intolerant parents. We are the ones to be setting precedents, teaching our children to be tolerant, and how to deal with people who are different to them. And if they are the ones that are different, then providing them with a safe and understanding place to be when they are hurt by the outside world.
One of my favorite movies along these lines is Ma Vie En Rose about a boy who just is different.
I couldn't agree with you more (and couldn't rep you any more either!).
Why is the burden on parents teaching their children to conform instead of parents teaching their children that beating people up, bullying, and shooting is wrong?
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