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No they don't. The vast majority of white collar workers work their 9-5 jobs and go home, end of story. You will find a FEW in each company that go above and beyond but most do not. Having been around the high end of the white collar world for almost 30 years, MOST people do NOT go above and beyond.
I truly do not know anyone who does this except one friend, who is an environmental engineer for the US government. And even he has to travel from time to time, for which hours he is not paid overtime. Attorneys, architects, resort management, more engineers, IT people, accountants, health care professionals...not a 40-hours-a -week 9-5er amongst them, nor has there been since about 2006-7.
As for bonuses...I know people who have gotten them recently, but they are in a very small minority.
You may have spent 30 years in the private sector, but you have little familiarity with the current state of the private sector.
I truly do not know anyone who does this except one friend, who is an environmental engineer for the US government. And even he has to travel from time to time, for which hours he is not paid overtime. Attorneys, architects, resort management, more engineers, IT people, accountants, health care professionals...not a 40-hours-a -week 9-5er amongst them, nor has there been since about 2006-7.
As for bonuses...I know people who have gotten them recently, but they are in a very small minority.
You may have spent 30 years in the private sector, but you have little familiarity with the current state of the private sector.
Ask all of your friends...they work with plenty of people that put in their 8 hours and go home. Sure, you will find in some levels of some jobs people are routinely putting in 60+ hours/week but they ARE compensated for that work in the form of higher salaries. I am sure most doctors you find work 60 hours/week, but they also make $400,000/year with all kinds of perks. No, they don't get overtime but their base salary is adjusted for a typical work week. In the education field, this is NOT the case and THAT is the point people are trying to make.
Looking online, checking our kids' grades--4 of DD's teachers were posting grades last night at 9:00 PM, 2 of DS's teachers were posted then as well. I got an email from their band director this morning at 6:00 AM about a fundraiser I am helping with, he will be at school tonight until 10:00 PM after putting in a long day at school, giving lessons to students (for free, part of the band program) after school, having music tests for marching band kids, and THEN going to marching band practice for 3 hours. He has a masters degree and is a thesis shy of his doctorate--so as much schooling as most doctors, yet he makes a FRACTION of what they make.
Some teachers end up working late everyday others don't. I find that the more organized teachers don't spend as much time after school as others. As far as band and music goes, our band teacher does work late often but it is not due to lack of being organized. She loves to help the students reach their full potential and puts forth that extra bit to do it.
Here's an interesting contrast---
My husband is blue collar-a foreman on a very large logging company. He works on the average of 60-70 hours a week having to live away from home during the week in a 5th wheel camper.
His friend who is white collar-vice president of paper manufacturing company. Works on the average of 45 hours a week, drives 30 minutes home and enjoys his family.
A tenured teacher at our school puts in 10 hours per day/4 day school week (started that two years ago) and is home within 10 minutes.
Guess who makes more? Here's a hint-Not my husband
The point is that even though teachers work long hours that they sometimes don't get paid for don't have a longer work day then a lot of the workforce out there. The majority of our tenured teachers make more than a lot of the workforce who put in double the hours per week that they do.
Last edited by magoomafoo; 09-22-2011 at 11:51 AM..
Reason: addition
Ask all of your friends...they work with plenty of people that put in their 8 hours and go home. Sure, you will find in some levels of some jobs people are routinely putting in 60+ hours/week but they ARE compensated for that work in the form of higher salaries. I am sure most doctors you find work 60 hours/week, but they also make $400,000/year with all kinds of perks. No, they don't get overtime but their base salary is adjusted for a typical work week. In the education field, this is NOT the case and THAT is the point people are trying to make.
Looking online, checking our kids' grades--4 of DD's teachers were posting grades last night at 9:00 PM, 2 of DS's teachers were posted then as well. I got an email from their band director this morning at 6:00 AM about a fundraiser I am helping with, he will be at school tonight until 10:00 PM after putting in a long day at school, giving lessons to students (for free, part of the band program) after school, having music tests for marching band kids, and THEN going to marching band practice for 3 hours. He has a masters degree and is a thesis shy of his doctorate--so as much schooling as most doctors, yet he makes a FRACTION of what they make.
It is much, much more difficult for a doctor to get his/her degree versus a teacher, regardless of whether they take the same amount of credits. Many who start out school wanting to be a doctor do not even get accepted to medical school, or realize well in advance they can not make the grades to get in and change majors.
How many do you know that were not accepted into a teaching program, or realized beforehand they could not make the grades to get in?
I think a major point has been missed as far as teachers salaries go. I too am to blame for it. I am fairly well acquainted with all of the teachers in our school. I don't think any of them got into teaching for the money. They all just love teaching and wanted to be teachers. Although in my previous post I stated that most teachers make more than a lot of the workers who work double the hours, that's missing the point. If a person works hard to be a teacher because that is what they wanted, then gripes because of long hours and low pay, they are in the wrong profession.
I think a major point has been missed as far as teachers salaries go. I too am to blame for it. I am fairly well acquainted with all of the teachers in our school. I don't think any of them got into teaching for the money. They all just love teaching and wanted to be teachers. Although in my previous post I stated that most teachers make more than a lot of the workers who work double the hours, that's missing the point. If a person works hard to be a teacher because that is what they wanted, then gripes because of long hours and low pay, they are in the wrong profession.
Your husband is a very lucky logger to be able to work 60-70 hour weeks anywhere. The loggers in our area are going bankrupt while the beetles eat the standing timber that needs to be thinned. That's probably why he's not griping about long hours and low pay. The whole forestry industry seems to be imploding. But if he loves the work, and it's what he wanted to do, then it must be working for him.
Your husband is a very lucky logger to be able to work 60-70 hour weeks anywhere. The loggers in our area are going bankrupt while the beetles eat the standing timber that needs to be thinned. That's probably why he's not griping about long hours and low pay. The whole forestry industry seems to be imploding. But if he loves the work, and it's what he wanted to do, then it must be working for him.
Our beetlekill is horrendous! I'm in Montana and my husband is working in Idaho. What? Montana ran out of trees? lol-It's a good job and the only thing he loves and if you love your work it's never work. He gets paid very good for Montana wages but the feller buncher operators/foremen in the Flathead Valley are averaging 1/3 higher. Helps when he works for the third largest logging/mill in the Northwestern corner of the states.
My oldest child is 12. I would say that half her teachers have been excellent, and the rest, with one exception, have been good. One teacher was terrible and was fired midway through the school year.
I would never want to be a teacher because of the disrespect I've seen both parents and students show them. Most parents around here think their children are academically "gifted" angels who can do no wrong. They will fight a teacher tooth and nail if their child doesn't get an A on a sloppily written essay and moan and groan that their child is underperforming because the little genius is bored.
As a classroom parent, I've seen kids throw things and I've heard them mouth off with little consequence from the principal. It's all blamed on some type of disorder (ADD, oppositional defiant disorder, etc.) and at worst the child is designed a one-on-one aid (AKA $8-an-hour babysitter).
It's much worse in the inner cities where my sisters teach. The vast majority of their students are poor and fatherless. Several have parents who are gang bangers. One day last year when a janitor came into my sister's classroom to hammer a nail that had popped out of the floor, one of her students became hysterical. Turns out when she was three her dad murdered her mom with a hammer.
Teachers used to just teach. Now, they're social workers and therapists, too. I don't begrudge them their long vacations b/c without them, they'd probably all have nervous breakdowns.
As far as salaries are concerned, I think it varies widely based on where you live. Teachers in our district make between $40,000 and $60,000 for the most part, which is comparable to what most college grads make. Their benefits (health and retirement) are much better than most. They've fared better than most workers in recent years in that they've gotten yearly raises of 3 to 5 percent compared to flat salaries or pay cuts ( our entire state workforce took a 3 percent, 2-year pay cut last year).
My oldest child is 12. I would say that half her teachers have been excellent, and the rest, with one exception, have been good. One teacher was terrible and was fired midway through the school year.
I would never want to be a teacher because of the disrespect I've seen both parents and students show them. Most parents around here think their children are academically "gifted" angels who can do no wrong. They will fight a teacher tooth and nail if their child doesn't get an A on a sloppily written essay and moan and groan that their child is underperforming because the little genius is bored.
As a classroom parent, I've seen kids throw things and I've heard them mouth off with little consequence from the principal. It's all blamed on some type of disorder (ADD, oppositional defiant disorder, etc.) and at worst the child is designed a one-on-one aid (AKA $8-an-hour babysitter).
It's much worse in the inner cities where my sisters teach. The vast majority of their students are poor and fatherless. Several have parents who are gang bangers. One day last year when a janitor came into my sister's classroom to hammer a nail that had popped out of the floor, one of her students became hysterical. Turns out when she was three her dad murdered her mom with a hammer.
Teachers used to just teach. Now, they're social workers and therapists, too. I don't begrudge them their long vacations b/c without them, they'd probably all have nervous breakdowns.
Kudos to you!!!!! Well spoken. I too have experienced nothing but wonderful teachers with the exception of one and we are paying for that this year. I was one of "those" bragging parents with my first who are twins but by the time the third and fourth came along I was over it. Out of four boys I can honestly say that only one of them is an honest, motivated, considerate and kind kid. The other three have tendencies to mouth off, not do homework, GASP lie and not do as they are told. I wouldn't trade any of them for the world, I love all of their differences and unique qualities good and bad. Parents gain wisdom with time and experience.
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. What? Montana ran out of trees? lol-It's a good job and the only thing he loves and if you love your work it's never work. He gets paid very good for Montana wages but the feller buncher operators/foremen in the Flathead Valley are averaging 1/3 higher. Helps when he works for the third largest logging/mill in the Northwestern corner of the states.
lie and not do as they are told. I wouldn't trade any of them for the world, I love all of their differences and unique qualities good and bad. Parents gain wisdom with time and experience.