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Old 10-27-2011, 05:52 AM
 
14,561 posts, read 8,956,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txtqueen View Post
Those are things I would never go back on.
I know it for sure.


Maybe things like when they start driving or when they can have a computer in their room but never stuff like personal hygiene or personal style.
No one knows for sure what they will or will not think in the future. I'm a completely different person now than when I was 20. People do change. It's supposed to be that way - part of the maturing process.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,349 posts, read 2,388,025 times
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I understand where txt is coming from - I think she's open to changing down the road, but these things ARE important to her, now. I admire folks who think about parenting before they are parents, and have ideals they'll strive for. Of course it may change, but it really might not.

Before I had kids, I said I wouldn't say, "Because I said so" and many, many folks laughed at me and told me that would change. BUT because I had a strong vision of the type of parent I want to be (and memories of how crappy I felt when my mom said that to me), I've said it maybe twice in nearly 19 years, and both of those times, because my kids trusted I wouldn't say it arbitrarily and for no reason, it wasn't a big deal. And I apologized afterwards, and explained why I'd needed to say it right then.

I'm so grateful I found support for parenting the way I really wanted to - there's PLENTY of support for controlling, punitive parenting out there, and it would have been easy to drop my ideals and fit in more with those methods. And now I can be a support for others who wish to parent in a different way - but that different way needs to start with a commitment, as txt is doing.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:35 AM
 
10,150 posts, read 11,551,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteGal View Post
I understand where txt is coming from - I think she's open to changing down the road, but these things ARE important to her, now. I admire folks who think about parenting before they are parents, and have ideals they'll strive for. Of course it may change, but it really might not.

Before I had kids, I said I wouldn't say, "Because I said so" and many, many folks laughed at me and told me that would change. BUT because I had a strong vision of the type of parent I want to be (and memories of how crappy I felt when my mom said that to me), I've said it maybe twice in nearly 19 years, and both of those times, because my kids trusted I wouldn't say it arbitrarily and for no reason, it wasn't a big deal. And I apologized afterwards, and explained why I'd needed to say it right then.

I'm so grateful I found support for parenting the way I really wanted to - there's PLENTY of support for controlling, punitive parenting out there, and it would have been easy to drop my ideals and fit in more with those methods. And now I can be a support for others who wish to parent in a different way - but that different way needs to start with a commitment, as txt is doing.
I agree that it is good to think ahead to what kind of parent you want to be. However, nobody really knows what they will think 20 years from now. The things that happen to you continue to shape your opinion and the kind of person you want to be and of course that affects parenting.

I do not think that making a decision when you are 20 (or whatever age she is) about what kind of stuff you will and will not allow your child to wear is silly. It is good to have a philosophy of allowing children to express themselves through hair and clothing. However, there is a line (for most of us) and nobody can know whether their child will cross that line ahead of time.

For instance, I don't generally think clothes are that big a deal. I let my sons wear stuff that I don't really like (can't stand skulls on clothing) because I think that it really isn't that big a deal. In general, I don't interfere with clothing. However, when my son was 12 he came home from wrestling camp with the following t-shirt:

Redirect Notice

I allowed him to keep it but I would not permit him to wear it outside the house. So I generally agree that its ok to wear clothes that I don't like because of style, color, whatever. However, a parent still needs to be a parent and nobody can know what little surprises await them ahead of time.

So-yes-it's good to have an idea of what you want ahead of time. But allow yourself the leeway to change your mind. You might need to do so.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:07 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,191 posts, read 2,323,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Also true. The children personalities do vary and with some I say so may work. With others logic works, with others incentives work. I repeat what I just wrote to another one. The say so is just another option. When I give a suggestion I would think the reader has the common sense that if I do not say IT IS THE ONLY OPTION implies it is one of many. Also because you reacted with drugs does not mean all kids will react the same way. So it did not work with you, well, your parents misses it. Parenting is not an exact science. We all do as best as we can. Proposed solutions at times work and at times do not. Take care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by txtqueen View Post
What's wrong with kids asserting their individuality?
Nothing wrong. Did I say it was wrong? No so your comment is irrelavant because I never said such thing.

What's wrong with once you hit the age where it matters to you being able to choose your own hair-cut, choose your own style and choose your own make-up?
And who sets that age? Is it something written in stone or by God or in nature? Parents more than anyone are the best ones to determine what limits they want to set on MINOR children. Sometimes the call is wrong and sometimes the call is right. Parenting is not an exac science.
Of course you aren't going to let your child dress like a prostitute but choosing between punk, goth, skater, prep, fashion forward should be up to the kid.
I see, so you decide what looks like prostitute and to you it is not appropriate so YOU decide as a parent. Other parents, maybe like the OP, may decide the hair is not appropriate and make the call. See? Opinions are like anuses, we all have one so parents are going to make the call they see appropriate.
I know someone will say that parents pay for the clothing but you can go into store, find the kids style and shop within the budget. You could have a preppy kid and give them a $200 budget for school clothes and a skater kid with the same budget and they could get the same amount of things, you can find affordable in any style.
Irrelevant to the "I say so" point so I have not answer. Good suggestion I suppose.
Finding who you are as an individual is something I think is very important and it should start young, knowing who you are and confidence comes hand in hand and that shouldn't be something your start once you are out of your parents house.
Also, part of who you are is part of the education, training, development, and guidance is what a parent does.
"Because I do not like it" is a terrible answer, i'll reiterate this.
It may not be the only option but if you have a child who accepts "because I said so" or "because I don't like it" then I feel sorry for that child.
That is the problem with you. Maybe you do not see life as much when it comes with variety or personalities, cultures, genders, etc. I did say "Because I said so to my children" and so did my wife. No need to have your sorrow on our kids. At the moment they may not have liked our response but as adults they have expressed the wisdom of those actions. They now said they realize that even then it was difficult for us a parents to use that course of action.
People who just accept something at face value and don't question whether it really is the best option, or if it is really best for them they end up later in life going through life just doing what people tell them or doing what they think they're "suppose" to do.
Did I say our kids accept our decisions at face value? No. Neither did I when I grew up. They questioned decisions just like all teenagers and just as I did. Irrelevant because I never said that.

For example, my roommate: Her mom was one of those people who controlled how she cut her hair, made her dye her hair blonder because her mom liked it better that way, she was controlled in EVERY aspect and was told the "because" answers all the time. She never questioned it, she just takes what people give her, even now that she is 18, she just accepts it.
Ok, it did not work with your roommate. You hit a few key words on something YOU MISSED in my message. Did I way to say so in EVERY aspect? No. So your comment is also irrelavant to my message.
Yesterday Verizon made a HUGE mistake, told us a Sept and Oct were never were paid (which they were) and that we owed $600, told her to talk to financial services and work out payments. She was going to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even though she and I had already paid those months. I had to push her to stand up for herself, to tell them no, excuse me this isn't right you can't do me this way. I made her pull up her bank statements to show it was paid and to get them to fix THEIR mistake. Finally today she took my advice and they fixed their mistake.
To me you used a bad example for the reason I just stated above. Irrelavant also.

I ask why, I question things, I want to know why something should or shouldn't happen before I just blindly do something. I also don't just let things that happen to me that I don't want to happen, I fight for fairness in everything I do. I push back and I think its the best thing a person can do for themselves.
I do the same and my daughters also. They are very assertive I proudly say. But, that does not have anything to do with the say so tactic because even though I used it it did not affect my daughters whatsoever as you claim. To me your claim proves incorrect that way you state it.

You know, why don't you like this hair cut? Why do you think it would be a bad thing? Ask questions, get answers.
Nothing wrong with that method. I have stated that before as another option. Irrelevant to the effectiveness of another method like I said so because I used it and so many other parents and it worked also.

There are so many things wrong with this sentence.
For starters, letting a child express themselves does not lead to them doing as they please as teenagers. Also you should be parenting all along, not when you try to parent later it doesn't work, no you parent all along.
Part of being a parent is that at times teens will not be able to do as they please. That is the problem today that to me is very pervasive, trying to please teens to much.
If you have set house rules, expectations etc and you enforce them and they grow up that way they won't buck the system too much, no matter if you let them choose their own hair cuts and other stuff.
So you do not have house rules? I do not want to call you a lier but it does sound to me that you are lying. I venture to guess at least that most houses have house rules. Parents set those limits. Well, I can tell you are lying already. You did mention that looking like a prostitute would be a no so you do have at least one rule. Why not allow your daughter to look like prostitute if she is just expressing her individuality and also please her on what she wants to do.

No later in life those kids who were allowed to choose their own style are usually compliant and individual teenagers and young adults with lots of confidence.
Those kids who are controlled and have little to no choice are the ones who rebel and go wild either in high school or college.
Every kids has to have some level of control, or not? What do you think? You want to tell us the rules on how to control others kids? Give us your guidance. What is your response to kids that have no control from parents and behave out of control also? It seems that your method can also backfire.
If you have no reason to rebel, you don't rebel.
That was a very interesting comment and not trying to be rude but very funny. Since when do teens do not have a reason not to rebel? They will invent a reason to rebel because at that age is what is natural for them.



The say so method is great if you want to raise someone who blindly does what they and told and never questions if something really is best for them.
What I saw in your response is that you seem to be the type that follows the lating saying "falsum in uno, falsum in toto". In other words wrong or false in one thing the whole is wrong or false.
Well, in raising kids it does not work that way. Life is very complicated and parenting is a very complicated task in life.
You talked in terms as if said that say so is the only method I advocate. You either ignored what I said or only saw what you saw without looking at the whole. I suppose you close your mind to the point that you have a very narrow mind on the issue like blinders on a horse.
It seems that maciesmom and mattie on message 65 and 57 did read more closely what I said.
Does I say so work all time? No, not at all. I did not work at times with me but in others it did. Does talking work all the time? No also. The same. Also, does any of those methods only work with certain children and not with others? No, one method may work with one child one day and the next it may not and it varies with children.
At times I did used the I say so method, the child got very mad and may have thrown her tantrum. I let her blow off steam. Maybe later or the next day I sat down and then explain why I responded in such way.

You know something. Even with adults methods vary. There are times just as with children that the situation does not merit to say "Johnny, look, please listen to me". and Johnny keeps pushing the issue. You may have reached a time that talking and listening reached a limit and simply assert your authority.
Example: I will never forget when I was stationed at Ft. Belvoir, VA. We were at the gym and one Soldier had to leave a basketball court free for us to use. I told him it was time to go. He felt it was not fair and right. I told him he had to. He in front of others started to undermine my authority and started to ask a few whys. I answer one why but at that point I knew he was going to keep being contemptous. I simply told him in a very calm voice "Private X, at easy, do not say anything and just leave" He saw my eyes and and he know he was pushing the bottom. He left. Later, one of my platoon sergeant told me he heard the Soldier say "Sergeant elamigo" put me in my place. He did it just the right way. He told me to shut up because if he did not he knew I was going to get in trouble for disrespect. He did a great job".
This was a 18 year old Soldier, still a teenager.
One time I had to use the I say so to one of my teens and later I went to her room and told her that I do not like to be put in this position and her undermine my authority as a father and I do not enjoy having to answer a child I love in such terms. She replied "I am sorry dad. I know I was being a jerk."
Bottom line? No method is the cure all solution (cookie cutter). Parenting is a trial and error mission with our kids and you do as best as you can. You want to have the falsum in uno, falsum in toto mentality, be my guest and I do hope it works for you. I and others believe in being more flexible in how to parent using different tactics and strategies on raising our kids. Take care.

Last edited by elamigo; 10-27-2011 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:41 PM
Status: "It's peanut-butter-jelly time, peanut-butter-jelly time!" (set 24 days ago)
 
7,043 posts, read 4,064,426 times
Reputation: 6945
I knew a boy who had the whole side of his head shaved in the early nineties and he looked pretty goood (I could see that in retrospect on a female and wouldn't think anything's wrong with it (some people may have a hangup on gender roles' influence on hairstyle but anyway). I have seen women, particularly Latinas who like to shave the underpart of their hair and I don't think it looks bad at all. I had a pixie cut a couple of years ago and I remember my mom threw a fit when she saw a picture of what I wanted to do, told me I'd look like a guy but I did it anyway and she ended up liking it and I got a lot of compliments on it.

I think you should lean toward letting her do what she wants, but I do think you should either have her think about it as others have advised, or get a picture of what she wants. This'll save her from having the haircut done totally wrong by someone who doen't understand how it is supposed to look. And I know that "it's just hair" and will grow back, but being a teenager with hair you don't like (or a class, or a school) can seem like an eternity to get away from.
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