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Old 12-22-2011, 09:32 AM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,537,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chance2jump View Post
My father is a computer and networking professional - yes, he had all kinds of tools to his advantage including keyloggers, router configurations that "shut off" internet at specific times of day, router configurations that "kick off" a computer from the network (If I lost internet privileges, but needed to write a report, I could use the computer without having internet available), etc, etc. Cell phones were still fairly new to the world at this time, and I didn't have one, so no scripts for a cell phone applied to me. But, he did get scripts of my chat room conversations.

Are we discussing use of technology, or are we discussing normal, every day teenager doings such as putting up pics of a cute guy/gal in a locker or keeping a diary or other 'harmless' things that teenagers do every day?

I have specifically only been talking about use of computers and cell phones - technology. You can read this in every single post that I have added to this thread. If a child is using technology, the parent has the responsibility to know what that child is up to for the protection of the child, the household and the family as a unit.

A "good" parent recognizes this responsibility and understand what it means.

A "good" parent also recognizes the responsibility to look at a diary, snoop through a bedroom or listen in on a phone call if the child has given them reason to. If the child is displaying characteristics of drug use, depression or another dangerous behavior, the decision to "spy" (as you call it) could be the difference between life or death.

Same goes with use of technology. If a child has an online relationship with somone the parent doesn't know, and that person suggests a private meeting, running away, visiting or something else --- The parent interferring could be the difference of life or death. Most parents that are not keeping tabs on their child's online activities wouldn't realize there was a problem until it was too late because there are no associated behavioral changes like there would be with depression or drug use.
I think we are more or less arguing a nuanced version of the same thing. I never said that a parent shouldn't spy/snoop/pry, whatever IF they have reason to do so. I simply said that I would not by default assume that position.

I also find the arguments of "running away" or sexual liasions happening as a truly bunk argument. I am willing to bet that the kids that engage in this behavior have/had other issues and again, the technology is not what made them do it, it was just a tool. The 19 year old sleeping with girls he met on Facebook is just as likely to sleep with those girls without Facebook. No, he may not have met girl "x" without Facebook, but just replace "x" with "y".

I stand by my argument that it comes down to knowing your kids and being involved in their lives. I don't believe spying by default is grounds for a healthy relationship, but may state that I reserve that right if I feel it's necessary. It's a very fine line and I don't think we are too far apart, just walking on slightly different sides.

As for the office computers, it is a different situation, I don't care how you try to spin it. There is a large difference between being an employee of a company and engaged in a contract to work per the employers terms in exchange for pay. To take that example and apply it to private lives is foolish as it is not comparable. How many of you would agree to letting your company monitor you 24/7?
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Lansing, MI
2,954 posts, read 5,947,844 times
Reputation: 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by txtqueen View Post
There isn't someone sitting somewhere watching me actively.
Do you seriously believe this???? Really???

Not only is ALL of your employer owned computer activity LOGGED and BACKED UP on several servers, there are monitoring programs that are constantly watching what every employee is doing while using the computer.

If you enter a website, the monitoring program is watching you. If you go to a site that is flagged, an alert goes back to the IT department.

Every action you take on that computer is actively monitored by another computer. That computer reports back to the people working in the IT department. It's not exactly someone watching you over your shoulder; it is actually MUCH worse ... Because --- they can replay exactly what kind of message you sent, what kind of site you visited and what kind of information you passed along. They can even provide a screen shot. What you do on their computer is owned by them, and it is submissable in court should there be a legal case brought up.

You, personally, might not be doing anything "illegal" on their computer. BUT -- if your company has a technology use policy that you signed when you were hired, and you're in violation of that policy just by surfing the net or using FB, that is reason alone to terminate you with just cause. All the technology disclosure has to say is that you recognize the computer is there for work purposes only.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:39 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,356,382 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance2jump View Post
This is exactly what I mentioned yesterday evening in response to one of my posts -- since I'm all for keeping tabs on kids and what they do while using technology. Seems like I would be a "bad parent" for doing so?
Those were fantastic posts. I'm glad you took the time to write all of that information out because it's 1) correct and, 2) hopefully people will learn from them.

I am very much in favor of pro-active parenting. Kids (and some adults for that matter) think they are invincible. They think it's not going to happen to them. They think they are smarter than their parents. I could go on but I think you get the picture.

I believe it's up to parent to step in, make sure the kids aren't doing something stupid, and save them from something horrible happening to them.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,672,926 times
Reputation: 19409
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance2jump View Post
Do you seriously believe this???? Really???

Not only is ALL of your employer owned computer activity LOGGED and BACKED UP on several servers, there are monitoring programs that are constantly watching what every employee is doing while using the computer.

If you enter a website, the monitoring program is watching you. If you go to a site that is flagged, an alert goes back to the IT department.

Every action you take on that computer is actively monitored by another computer. That computer reports back to the people working in the IT department. It's not exactly someone watching you over your shoulder; it is actually MUCH worse ... Because --- they can replay exactly what kind of message you sent, what kind of site you visited and what kind of information you passed along. They can even provide a screen shot. What you do on their computer is owned by them, and it is submissable in court should there be a legal case brought up.

You, personally, might not be doing anything "illegal" on their computer. BUT -- if your company has a technology use policy that you signed when you were hired, and you're in violation of that policy just by surfing the net or using FB, that is reason alone to terminate you with just cause. All the technology disclosure has to say is that you recognize the computer is there for work purposes only.
Great post! Can't rep you again....but so, so many people are completely unaware of these facts! Even colleges do this! I have a dear friend and ex-BIL who is HEAD of the IT dept in a college and yes, they DO this. Saying "I wasn't looking at anything bad" is a stupid thing to do. They KNOW who was doing what!

You have to "log in" to a computer, therefore you have identified yourself and are leaving a trail. Even if you didn't have to log in to a computer, if YOU are the one who had access to it, YOU are leaving a trail of information.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:38 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,546,067 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance2jump View Post
Do you seriously believe this???? Really???

Not only is ALL of your employer owned computer activity LOGGED and BACKED UP on several servers, there are monitoring programs that are constantly watching what every employee is doing while using the computer.

If you enter a website, the monitoring program is watching you. If you go to a site that is flagged, an alert goes back to the IT department.

Every action you take on that computer is actively monitored by another computer. That computer reports back to the people working in the IT department. It's not exactly someone watching you over your shoulder; it is actually MUCH worse ... Because --- they can replay exactly what kind of message you sent, what kind of site you visited and what kind of information you passed along. They can even provide a screen shot. What you do on their computer is owned by them, and it is submissable in court should there be a legal case brought up.

You, personally, might not be doing anything "illegal" on their computer. BUT -- if your company has a technology use policy that you signed when you were hired, and you're in violation of that policy just by surfing the net or using FB, that is reason alone to terminate you with just cause. All the technology disclosure has to say is that you recognize the computer is there for work purposes only.
I wouldn't say this happens at every single company. But it IS a reality for many...and the thing is, you don't KNOW what kind of trackers your particular company uses. Which is why you should always assume that you ARE being monitored.

There have been many stories of employees being fired for private message sent on company time. I have close ties to our IT department, so I know we don't have key stroke trackers, but we do monitor bandwidth use. Employees don't realize that streaming video slows down our entire center and makes a noticeable difference in computer performance.

My team is part of the 'police' force...we monitor employees for a range of things. And we will write up people we catch surfing facebook while they should be working. Just yesterday I sent someone home for streaming a movie- did they really think no one would catch that? When confronted, he was confused how we found out because he was using the inprivate settings for the browser. The thing is, he was clearly visible from our station. So, you know, I caught him because I looked up and saw Thor battling frost giants. It was kind of a big clue.

So yes, many employers do monitor internet usage, even if you don't think they do. And there's any number of ways to go about it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:49 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,356,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
There have been many stories of employees being fired for private message sent on company time.
Plus there's that whole thing where if you have a job you're getting paid to do a JOB and not sit around and play Angry Birds and text your friends. (Or is it terribly 20th Century of me to think that people should be paying attention to their work and not messing around on the company's dime?)
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:02 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,948,889 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Plus there's that whole thing where if you have a job you're getting paid to do a JOB and not sit around and play Angry Birds and text your friends. (Or is it terribly 20th Century of me to think that people should be paying attention to their work and not messing around on the company's dime?)
Ohohono, I'm not jumping on THAT bandwagon. Execs get to do it almost all day. Lead as you would have them follow, say I.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,228,450 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Plus there's that whole thing where if you have a job you're getting paid to do a JOB and not sit around and play Angry Birds and text your friends. (Or is it terribly 20th Century of me to think that people should be paying attention to their work and not messing around on the company's dime?)
Ah, let me join you in the 20th century, Dew.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,672,926 times
Reputation: 19409
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
Ah, let me join you in the 20th century, Dew.
I'll step right up with you two as well. If I was an employer, you can bet that if I found out I was paying an employee to chit chat on the Internet, instead of doing the job he/she was being paid to do....they'd have loads of "upaid" time on their hands, to spend with their friends.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:50 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,546,067 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Plus there's that whole thing where if you have a job you're getting paid to do a JOB and not sit around and play Angry Birds and text your friends. (Or is it terribly 20th Century of me to think that people should be paying attention to their work and not messing around on the company's dime?)
Honestly, as this point I just try and stop them from committing fraud or screwing over little old ladies. Most of them really don't understand why they can't play games or watch movies at work.

Today I actually had one of my agents try to back out of a sale because it was clear the buyer didn't understand the product or the prices. She was older and kept forgetting the product name and her own address. He could have gone for a big package and killed this poor lady's checking account...but instead he told her to call back when her daughter was there to help her. I was so incredibly proud, my grinch heart grew three sizes and I gave him a bonus for having ethics. That shouldn't be as rare as it is.
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