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Old 12-19-2011, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Pa
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Just like the adults we will push our limits. Sometimes to far. Also OP you never were bad? Heck I'm scared when my son becomes a teen since I remember how I was. Oh yeah I knew my limits since my parents were strict. They taught me from right and wrong. Sometimes though you don't listen to the angel on your shoulder.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Wherever life takes me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raena77 View Post
Just like the adults we will push our limits. Sometimes to far. Also OP you never were bad? Heck I'm scared when my son becomes a teen since I remember how I was. Oh yeah I knew my limits since my parents were strict. They taught me from right and wrong. Sometimes though you don't listen to the angel on your shoulder.
Yeah there is a rush, excitement, adrenaline rush that comes with acting "bad".
And pushing limits is right, the MORE my mom tried to crack down on me and not trust me the more I wanted to go out and just do the things she thought I was doing.
I tried pot when I was 18 because my mom was going nuts at the time and cracking down on me so when I would go out with my friends I would go crazy, she already thought I was going out and doing this stuff so why not actually go out and do it. She always "assumed" I was and never went any further with just accusing me so I never got caught.

I've always known right from wrong but sometimes deep down there's just this natural drive in some people to do something "bad" for the thrill, the rush and the excitement that comes a long with it.

Even now, being "wild" is fun to an extent, some people enjoy it and some don't.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:06 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,971,807 times
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Originally Posted by txtqueen View Post
Without getting all into psychology and whatever you guys were talking about I'll answer the simple question...

Why would anyone want to be "bad"?

It's fun. Teens want to be "bad" because what's "fun" about sitting at home or doing "appropriate" things...
So you're saying that teens want to do something... because they want to do it?

This is why we got "all into psychology and whatever", because we want to know WHY (some) teens think it's fun to be bad. And I think it's because they are conditioned in certain ways from an early age and/or driven further FROM what they would later call "boring" by excessive rules.

There's nothing inherently "fun" about, well, anything. It's in the mind. If you were raised up not allowed to do anything at all, playing solitaire would be considered fun and even exciting. With all due respect, I'm one to dig deeper. For example, flip the question: Why do some teens NOT want to be bad, especially if being bad is so much fun?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Wherever life takes me.
5,973 posts, read 6,419,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
So you're saying that teens want to do something... because they want to do it?

This is why we got "all into psychology and whatever", because we want to know WHY (some) teens think it's fun to be bad. And I think it's because they are conditioned in certain ways from an early age and/or driven further FROM what they would later call "boring" by excessive rules.

There's nothing inherently "fun" about, well, anything. It's in the mind. If you were raised up not allowed to do anything at all, playing solitaire would be considered fun and even exciting. With all due respect, I'm one to dig deeper. For example, flip the question: Why do some teens NOT want to be bad, especially if being bad is so much fun?

Lets use myself for example, my mom wasn't over excessive with the rules, I mean some times I thought she was going overboard but then again I was allowed to drink at home at 16 and for my 16th birthday one of my male friends spent the night.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MYSELF I AM GIVING INSIGHT INTO WHY PEOPLE FIND BEING "BAD" FUN.

I was/am one of those teens/young adults that finds a thrill in doing something "bad" or something I necessarily shouldn't do. Not I'm not talking illegal but drinking at a party and having some fun, playing strip poker etc, stuff like that, sneaking in/out of places, staying out late, just sailing by the seat of my pants on the SS Spontaneity to Wild Island just sounds like fun.
I honestly don't know why it did/does appeal to me, maybe if anyone else if like that they will have a better explanation. I think it links to adrenaline and what gets people's adrenaline pumping.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Wherever life takes me.
5,973 posts, read 6,419,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
So you're saying that teens want to do something... because they want to do it?

This is why we got "all into psychology and whatever", because we want to know WHY (some) teens think it's fun to be bad. And I think it's because they are conditioned in certain ways from an early age and/or driven further FROM what they would later call "boring" by excessive rules.

There's nothing inherently "fun" about, well, anything. It's in the mind. If you were raised up not allowed to do anything at all, playing solitaire would be considered fun and even exciting. With all due respect, I'm one to dig deeper. For example, flip the question: Why do some teens NOT want to be bad, especially if being bad is so much fun?

But once you get playing solitaire for awhile then you want to move onto something more thrilling and then after that more and more thrilling and it just continues.

Some people are born with the drive and some aren't.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,238,763 times
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Originally Posted by txtqueen View Post
But once you get playing solitaire for awhile then you want to move onto something more thrilling and then after that more and more thrilling and it just continues.

Some people are born with the drive and some aren't.
You beat me to it, Vic.

The seeking out wild things that may be considered "bad" and risk taking is very much a part of personality traits, such as sensation seeking, openness to new experience, and however one's brain is wired for risk and reward. For some, the reward centers of the brain light up like a holiday tree when taking risks and "being bad," which leads to wanting to seek out stimuli that produce that feeling more and more often. With problematic behaviors (e.g., problem drinking, problem gambling), the intensity of the stimulus needs to increase over time to produce the same feeling. I can easily see how a thrill-seeker could get themselves into dangerous situations this way.

And to the poster who said personality is set by age 3 - nice try, but no cigar. While temperament is in evidence beginning in infancy, humans inherit range of traits that drive behaviors that are either reinforced or not. Two people with the same exact temperament exposed to different life experiences are likely to exhibit very different "personalities." Current personality theory research does not support the idea that personality is immutable and fixed. You inherit a range of traits and what you do with them behaviorally is up to you.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:12 AM
 
Location: TX
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Originally Posted by txtqueen View Post
I honestly don't know why it did/does appeal to me, maybe if anyone else if like that they will have a better explanation. I think it links to adrenaline and what gets people's adrenaline pumping.
Even this is affected by upbringing. The body is conditioned by experience just as the mind is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txtqueen View Post
But once you get playing solitaire for awhile then you want to move onto something more thrilling and then after that more and more thrilling and it just continues.

Some people are born with the drive and some aren't.
I think pretty much EVERYONE has the motive for excitement, but that it's altered (how much of a change in excitement level they need, and how often) by experience and values. Going back to the solitaire example, the good news is that a person wouldn't have to jump from solitaire to strip poker to satisfy such a need. They could go from solitaire to UNO and then video games or swimming, perhaps maxing out at skiing in their late 20s. This is just a theory, but the principles of desensitization and gradual stimulation are not new.

As I proposed to you, there must be some explanation as to why so many kids choose NOT to do bad things.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:20 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,285,183 times
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Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
I know this is kind of a dumb question, but I am struggling to understand why any kid or teen would WANT to be "bad?"

This question occurred to me after I read the thread about how much privacy to give a kid . . .it appears from reading that thread that if you do not monitor your kids 24/7, they will grow into evil monsters . . .and my question is "WHY WOULD THAT BE THE CASE?"

At the heart of self discipline is the understanding that I am responsible for my actions and the consequences thereof. Many parental discipline strategies fail to allow children to learn that lesson by taking responsibility for the child, not allowing the child to really feel their own responsibility.

By using a punishment/reward system we teach our children to ask themselves who is going to catch me and what is in it for me.

Quote:
WHY would a kid prefer to do things that are morally wrong or just dumb (one poster said a teen was basically a prostitute - that she was soliciting men on a FB page, while her mom thought she wan an angel) . . .

I was a teen . . .I know teens do dumb stuff and like to experiment with some stuff . . .that is not the question.

I guess I thought that most people had consciences . . .but according to what I am reading, if you do not spy on your kids, and basically whip them into shape, they will turn out to be horrible people.

I have not read every post in the thread. So I don't know to whom you are responding. I think a young child get as much freedom as they can responsibly handle. When they are really young, you start them off with really youn g responsibilities. WHEN you have cleaned the toys you were playing with, THEN you can play with the new toys. We don't throw blocks. Throwing blocks is dangerous. When you can play with the blocks correctly, then you can play with the blocks. I am going to put them away. We can try again tomorrow.


As they get older, they get older responsibilities. We don't hit. People who can't play properly, can't play. We will try play group again next week. (Hopefully followed by role playing and discussion about how to handle the problem properly next time.)

When your chores are done, then you can play DS. Ooops you did not put your DS away, and it got stepped on. I guess you don't have a DS anymore. Oh you chose not to pack your backpack and have lost your home work that you worked hard on? Huh. Getting that zero is gonna hurt. Do you need help coming up with a procedure for organizing your homework?

You are allowing them to make connection after connection after connection between action and consequence. Later they can really understand, if I sext then I run the risk of having my bod on every cell in the school...

But in many cases people will inadvertently put up barriers to kids making those connections. We don't hit, spank. Or we don't hit, go to the time out chair. (Time out is the single most misused discipline tool in the box. It has its use, but it has been morphed into a punishment. It is not supposed to be. It is supposed to be breathing room to get out of control feelings under control. I do it myself.)

You left your DS out, you are grounded.

Or you did not pack your backpack dear. Here is your home work. I packed it for you.

What have these children learned about taking responsibility for their actions? If I don't do it, my Mom will. Someone is supervising/checking up on me. I will get punished if I do something wrong. I don't really have to think about it.


Quote:
I "disagree" with this premise - I had a lot of freedom as a kid and a teen and I pretty much monitored myself and never got into serious trouble . . .and turned out to be a decent person . . .my parents also did not teach me values, per se -but I seemed to have picked some up from church or something - I don't know, maybe somewhat innate, as I always have had a strong conscience.

I guess I believe that kids will become what they will become, almost regardless of parents . . . not really sure about that, though . . .

I disagree with that immensely. Character has to be taught, modeled. What a person WANTS can always be at odds with what is right. In the long term being right is always better than getting instant gratification. But that is a life lesson that needs scaffolding.

I think that a hands off parent is more likely to accidentally permit children to feel the consequences of their actions though.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,707,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
I know this is kind of a dumb question, but I am struggling to understand why any kid or teen would WANT to be "bad?"

This question occurred to me after I read the thread about how much privacy to give a kid . . .it appears from reading that thread that if you do not monitor your kids 24/7, they will grow into evil monsters . . .and my question is "WHY WOULD THAT BE THE CASE?"

WHY would a kid prefer to do things that are morally wrong or just dumb (one poster said a teen was basically a prostitute - that she was soliciting men on a FB page, while her mom thought she wan an angel) . . .

I was a teen . . .I know teens do dumb stuff and like to experiment with some stuff . . .that is not the question.

I guess I thought that most people had consciences . . .but according to what I am reading, if you do not spy on your kids, and basically whip them into shape, they will turn out to be horrible people.

I "disagree" with this premise - I had a lot of freedom as a kid and a teen and I pretty much monitored myself and never got into serious trouble . . .and turned out to be a decent person . . .my parents also did not teach me values, per se -but I seemed to have picked some up from church or something - I don't know, maybe somewhat innate, as I always have had a strong conscience.

I guess I believe that kids will become what they will become, almost regardless of parents . . . not really sure about that, though . . .
In a nutshell, some PEOPLE are just bad. I don't see this as any different than adults who choose to be bad. Some people just ARE. Some do it for attention, some are just flat out evil. Many of them don't even respond to "disciplinary actions"....they're just made that way.

To me, there's no more concrete an answer to this question than there is to the question of, "Why are some people so good, so kind, so thoughtful?" Some people just ARE. It is their very nature to be so. Some people can't even IMAGINE doing something to purposely hurt someone else, couldn't imagine why you'd steal, purposely break a rule/law. Some people have no sense of empathy and do whatever they want, to whomever they want to do it to. Frankly, "feelings" don't even enter the picture for some folks. They are who they are.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:03 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,485,383 times
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Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Some people have no sense of empathy and do whatever they want, to whomever they want to do it to. Frankly, "feelings" don't even enter the picture for some folks. They are who they are.
When the book "Columbine" came out I did some reading on psychopaths. (The book's premise was that Eric Harris was a psychopath.) More than one article I read said lack of empathy can be seen in children as young as age two. Psychopathic behavior can be seen as young as age four.

(No expert. Just reporting what I've read.)

To get back to the original question I think some people want to be bad because it can be equated with being "cool".

And I've seen more than one "good" kid who changes after he becomes friends with the "bad" kids and wants their approval and attention. Plus a lot of kids become bad just to tick off their parents. Or they think being bad makes them, somehow, more grown-up. The old "grown-ups smoke and drink and party so that's what I'll do."

Last edited by DewDropInn; 12-20-2011 at 01:11 PM..
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