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Old 12-22-2011, 11:20 AM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
To the poster who commented on what they would have done to me, had I swatted their child, who was exhibiting life AND property threatening behaviors, because his mother was/is a fool? Don't think for one second that "the look" didn't cross her face. The difference is, she was smart enough to know that I was already over the edge and the wrong move, at that moment, would have meant that SHE would have been picking her stupid, lazy, worthless, drug addicted, alcoholic arse off of the floor!
Either way! The point is, don't hit someone else's kid (without explicit and detailed permission by the parent). There's too much of a chance that BOTH of your kids are gonna learn to argue or fight rather than communicate effectively.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,658,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Either way! The point is, don't hit someone else's kid (without explicit and detailed permission by the parent). There's too much of a chance that BOTH of your kids are gonna learn to argue or fight rather than communicate effectively.
Ahhhhh and yet, this particular child was violent from the get go...long before I gave him a swat for starting a fire in the house. His mother didn't believe in spanking, yet 3 out of 5 of hers were constantly in trouble for fighting, breaking the laws, and one of her daughters, as a teenager, punched her in the face. I am a non-violent person and yet was raised in a house where spankings were common.

Again, this particular moron was basically unaffected by her son's behavior, even though she had recently lost nearly all of her possessions, she and her other children nearly lost their lives (he started the fire at 5:30 a.m. while the entire family slept), and the owner of the house she was renting LOST his house. I reacted in a state of panic and like I said, could have easily have taken HER out, in the heat of the moment, had she not checked herself quickly!
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:15 PM
 
1,067 posts, read 1,377,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrie2979 View Post
I was never allowed in my parents room unless accompanied by one of them let alone having a friend in there. Any how, I used to believe in swatting too as I was swatted a few times as a child, however as it has been explained to me is that we as adults we dont go swatting/hitting someone because of there actions do we? so why would we do that to a child? There are other forms of discipline, and the child explained in the OP would have been sent home. But of course this incident would have not happened becaise they would not have been in my room to begin with.

I never have understood this theory. We dont treat children like they are adults. I wouldnt go hitting another adult (without good reason) but a child is not an adult. They dont have the maturity of an adult they dont think like an adult and sometimes the only way a child will learn is a quick swat on the butt imo.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:30 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Ahhhhh and yet, this particular child was violent from the get go...long before I gave him a swat for starting a fire in the house. His mother didn't believe in spanking, yet 3 out of 5 of hers were constantly in trouble for fighting, breaking the laws, and one of her daughters, as a teenager, punched her in the face. I am a non-violent person and yet was raised in a house where spankings were common.

Again, this particular moron was basically unaffected by her son's behavior, even though she had recently lost nearly all of her possessions, she and her other children nearly lost their lives (he started the fire at 5:30 a.m. while the entire family slept), and the owner of the house she was renting LOST his house. I reacted in a state of panic and like I said, could have easily have taken HER out, in the heat of the moment, had she not checked herself quickly!
So your point is, you got lucky that nothing happened and that the kid was already screwed up. I'm not one to argue that spanking makes kids violent (I was spanked as a kid and now I'm against any sort of violence as well as spanking), although I seriously doubt corporal punishment in and of itself could ever HELP matters. But generally speaking, you must know that most parents are going to take offense to you striking their kid and eventually it could lead to more than harsh words between two grownups, which is bad influence enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioChic View Post
I never have understood this theory. We dont treat children like they are adults. I wouldnt go hitting another adult (without good reason) but a child is not an adult. They dont have the maturity of an adult they dont think like an adult and sometimes the only way a child will learn is a quick swat on the butt imo.
Exactly, they DON'T think like adults. They don't always discern between a parent hitting their kid on the bottom and they themselves hitting another kid on the arm. That's how they learn things, they watch behavior and ignore context. If they hear you say the F word in anger because someone slammed into your car from behind, they'll probably be saying it for no apparent reason at all within minutes.

Further, I think kids learn maturity as much as they grow into it. If you treat them as closely to the way you'd treat an adult as possible, they'll learn to take on the role of a respected person.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,658,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
So your point is, you got lucky that nothing happened and that the kid was already screwed up. I'm not one to argue that spanking makes kids violent (I was spanked as a kid and now I'm against any sort of violence as well as spanking), although I seriously doubt corporal punishment in and of itself could ever HELP matters. But generally speaking, you must know that most parents are going to take offense to you striking their kid and eventually it could lead to more than harsh words between two grownups, which is bad influence enough.



Exactly, they DON'T think like adults. They don't always discern between a parent hitting their kid on the bottom and they themselves hitting another kid on the arm. That's how they learn things, they watch behavior and ignore context. If they hear you say the F word in anger because someone slammed into your car from behind, they'll probably be saying it for no apparent reason at all within minutes.

Further, I think kids learn maturity as much as they grow into it. If you treat them as closely to the way you'd treat an adult as possible, they'll learn to take on the role of a respected person.
Yes, and should you ever find yourself in a situation with a relative's child, one who has already burned down one house, lighting fires inside your house, do remember to react calmly and gently. "Now, now Johnny, we don't light fires indoors. There now, that's a good boy. Let's go see your mommy, okay. Perhaps it's time for you to go home now." Yeah...LOL, it's one thing to be standing on the outside, hypothetically imagining what you might do...and entirely different situation, finding yourself literally in the fire.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:38 PM
 
15,290 posts, read 16,844,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioChic View Post
I never have understood this theory. We dont treat children like they are adults. I wouldnt go hitting another adult (without good reason) but a child is not an adult. They dont have the maturity of an adult they dont think like an adult and sometimes the only way a child will learn is a quick swat on the butt imo.
This is simply not true. Certainly it is not true of a child at 10 even if you believe it might be true of a child at 2 or 3.

If you want to develop your child's thinking skills, you must allow them to make mistakes, ask them to assess those mistakes and help guide them into better ways of dealing with the world. You will not get any of that by spanking them.

By using reasoning skills children become capable of verbalising these thoughts and learn to explain their opinions to others. It is necessary for adults to model this thinking process and support the explanations.

Misbehaving = Child is doing something that is bad for the parent.
Behaving = Child is doing something that is acceptable to the parent.

Children donít misbehave. Their behaviors are simply actions they have chosen to meet these important needs.

Quote:
Teach critical thinking skills: they can prevent violence. There has been research showing that youthful impulsiveness may be linked to younger teenagers' frenetic brain activity in the amygdala, which is primarily linked with emotions and instinctual reactions. Older teens and adults show more activity in the frontal lobe--the brain tissue involve in planning, insight and organization. Teachers can encourage young teen-agers (and younger) to develop the frontal lobe by teaching them to think more rationally (Yergelun-Todd, 1998). This may translate into integrating more critical thinking skills into school curriculums to teach kids more logical ways to solve problems. Paradoxically, school curricula aimed at helping teens get in touch with their emotions may actually make things worse--given the emotional makeup of many troubled teens--while programs that substitute rational thought for emotion may help them deal with their problems constructively. Star Trek's "Mr. Spock" turns out to be right: cool logic is the enemy of hotheaded violence.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:01 PM
 
1,067 posts, read 1,377,160 times
Reputation: 1070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
So your point is, you got lucky that nothing happened and that the kid was already screwed up. I'm not one to argue that spanking makes kids violent (I was spanked as a kid and now I'm against any sort of violence as well as spanking), although I seriously doubt corporal punishment in and of itself could ever HELP matters. But generally speaking, you must know that most parents are going to take offense to you striking their kid and eventually it could lead to more than harsh words between two grownups, which is bad influence enough.



Exactly, they DON'T think like adults. They don't always discern between a parent hitting their kid on the bottom and they themselves hitting another kid on the arm. That's how they learn things, they watch behavior and ignore context. If they hear you say the F word in anger because someone slammed into your car from behind, they'll probably be saying it for no apparent reason at all within minutes.

Further, I think kids learn maturity as much as they grow into it. If you treat them as closely to the way you'd treat an adult as possible, they'll learn to take on the role of a respected person.
I think by the age of about 3 or 4 they shouldnt be mocking what their parents say anymore. But different folks different strokes. I believe in spanking my kids but you dont.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:12 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,231,004 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioChic View Post
I never have understood this theory. We dont treat children like they are adults. I wouldnt go hitting another adult (without good reason) but a child is not an adult. They dont have the maturity of an adult they dont think like an adult and sometimes the only way a child will learn is a quick swat on the butt imo.

Somebody the broken record strikes again!

Amazon.com: Discipline for Life : Getting it Right with Children (9781887069069): Madelyn Swift: Books

This is a good discussion on what we are teaching our kids when we use punishment/reward systems and a great starting point for thinking about what effective things can replace punishment/reward ... maybe strongly refine is better than replace.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:49 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Yes, and should you ever find yourself in a situation with a relative's child, one who has already burned down one house, lighting fires inside your house, do remember to react calmly and gently. "Now, now Johnny, we don't light fires indoors. There now, that's a good boy. Let's go see your mommy, okay. Perhaps it's time for you to go home now." Yeah...LOL, it's one thing to be standing on the outside, hypothetically imagining what you might do...and entirely different situation, finding yourself literally in the fire.
I said nothing about being calm and gentle, and I certainly would NOT call him a good boy... But I wouldn't have hit him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioChic View Post
I think by the age of about 3 or 4 they shouldnt be mocking what their parents say anymore. But different folks different strokes. I believe in spanking my kids but you dont.
Hehe, fine, they won't just say the word at random. But they will still say it when they become suddenly angry. The point is you're demonstrating behaviors to someone who doesn't fully understand the difference between you correcting them by hitting and them correcting other kids by hitting.

And I figured you'd know by now, I reserve "Different folks, different strokes" for the question of who's a better rock band, your favorite soda, things like that.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:51 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,231,004 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
The point is you're demonstrating behaviors to someone who doesn't fully understand the difference between you correcting them by hitting and them correcting other kids by hitting.
I can understand their confusion because I am a 40 something year old with a reasonably high IQ, and I cannot fully understand said difference.
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