15 Year old girl commits suicide after being bullied (girls, play, children)

[Alltheusernamesaretaken]

Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken
There certainly was bullying then, but it was not "a-OK".
These days EVERYthing is "a-OK" because kids "have differences, syndromes, excuses" for every blessed thing.

It is harder to get kids (some kids) to realize the difference between right and wrong currently
because we are so busy telling them how fab and special they all are
and making sure everyone gets a sticker.

Today's kids may think it's acceptable to rally together [sometimes anonymously] on the Internet and continue to beat down a deceased person
but
previously they would have a very good idea that they were indeed the scum of the earth for doing so.

Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I'm not sure that there's any research evidence for a causal link or even a correlation between what I've bolded above and bullying.

I think they are interesting ideas, but I disagree that bullying is considered A-OK today, and am not sure that bullies 20 or 50 years ago had a good idea that they were the scum of the earth or that most kids today would find beating down the deceased to be acceptable. I do agree the some of the bullying behaviors in the news recently are absolutely horrifying. Please believe me when I say I'm no "trophies for everyone" parent, but I think it's really important that we get at the right causes and fast, and I have yet to see evidence that "parenting these days" is the most parsimonious answer. If it turns out to have empirical support, I'll gladly change my mind then.

What I'm saying is that we give kids the "everything you do is wonderful" vibe, along with "no matter what you do, or how well you do / don't do, you get PRAISEPRAISEPRAISE."

For kids who have been conditioned that everything they do is just gold-standard worthy,
that every acting-out they do is just an expression of their personality,
that ever weird tick they have really makes them a special-special snowflake,
the bullying is viewed as just another acceptable, "excuseable" thing they do.

They cannot be blamed for anything.
Their classroom behavior? ADD.
Their incomplete homework? Incompetent teachers.
Their soccer ball that didn't go into the goal? No problem. You'll still get a trophy.
Their screaming bloody murder because they must have that candy bar in the grocery store? Low blood sugar.

NOTHING is their fault.
Not behavior, not homework, not subpar sports ability, not a tantrum,
and certainly not bullying.

I'm not saying this is how society wants bullies to feel,
but rather that this is how we (well, not ME, but...) condition kids from an early age, so what do we expect?

[lauramc27]

Originally Posted by sskkc

Obviously, the answer isn't one-sided and doesn't rest with any ONE side or person.

Parents need to teach their children compassion and respect for others. Empathy even, and teach them that apathy to bullying is just as bad as bullying themselves. Parents also need to teach their children to stand up for themselves, and when it's gone too far (yes, in some cases, it goes beyond what most of us experience/experienced when we were kids) that they need to tell adults, and keep telling adults, until someone steps in and actually HELPS them.

The schools need to reinforce their bs "zero tolerance" policies, and quit hiding bullying incidents.

Kids who are bullies are horrible little people, but they became horrible little people due to their environment. While the kids need to be held accountable for their actions, the reasons for their bullying behavior needs to be looked into as well.

People in general need to learn discernment. There is a difference between a kid picking on a kid because they have the "wrong" shoes by teasing them and calling them names and a kid knocking another child down to the ground and punching them in the back of the head daily. Calling someone a "weirdo" is not nearly as bad as posting nasty, ugly rumors and insults about a child and to a child on a social networking forum.

I HATE the phrase "it takes a village" because I feel it's not only overused, but thrown out to excuse the behavior (or lack thereof) of those closest to the problem. It does take EVERYONE though... if you, as an adult, see a kid being teased, do you stop and say something? Or do you shrug and walk away? How about your kids? Maybe they're not the ones doing the bullying, or being bullied... but I GUARANTEE you they've witnessed it. If you're not stepping up, in front of them, it's unlikely they are. Have you ever seen a cashier being browbeaten by an irate customer in line with you? Seen an out of control parent screaming at their child for no apparent reason? What did you do? More importantly, what did your child learn from watching what you did or didn't do?

When my daughter was attacked viciously in her classroom, out of 22 other students, only ONE stepped up. ONE. 21 other children in the classroom just turned away, not wanting to get involved or thinking it was none of their business. I have a really poor perception of them AND their parents... I believe their parents were JUST AS APATHETIC as they were. I fought the school to have her attacker removed from her classroom. A year later he began to attack another child, and the mother called me (a year later, by then we'd moved) I asked her why she didn't step up when I asked the other parents for help the year before. I didn't say I wouldn't help her, but she hung up on me. While I hope her daughter is okay, I believe her daughter is reaping what she, her other classmates and her parents sowed.

This is exactly what I have been saying. Until the other kids step up against the bullies nothing will change. I think it is horrible that out of a class of 22 only one child stepped up. That speaks volumes. I have always taught my daughter to not only stick up for herself but to step up if she sees someone being bullied and until all kids do this bullying will continue.

And this, "be nice to your bully" crap being taught in my daughter school is just that, crap. Why would you ask a child to ask their tormentor to play ball with them? That's setting the poor kid up for more bullying, IMO.

[eastwesteastagain]

Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken

What I'm saying is that we give kids the "everything you do is wonderful" vibe, along with "no matter what you do, or how well you do / don't do, you get PRAISEPRAISEPRAISE."

For kids who have been conditioned that everything they do is just gold-standard worthy,
that every acting-out they do is just an expression of their personality,
that ever weird tick they have really makes them a special-special snowflake,
the bullying is viewed as just another acceptable, "excuseable" thing they do.

They cannot be blamed for anything.
Their classroom behavior? ADD.
Their incomplete homework? Incompetent teachers.
Their soccer ball that didn't go into the goal? No problem. You'll still get a trophy.
Their screaming bloody murder because they must have that candy bar in the grocery store? Low blood sugar.

NOTHING is their fault.
Not behavior, not homework, not subpar sports ability, not a tantrum,
and certainly not bullying.

I'm not saying this is how society wants bullies to feel,
but rather that this is how we (well, not ME, but...) condition kids from an early age, so what do we expect?

I understand what you're saying, I just disagree that a) this is the norm and b) that there is evidence that this type of environment is what leads to the bullying we're reading about in the media or experiencing with our kids, respectively. I can definitively say that there is no evidence that this type of environment leads to suicidal behavior (to bring us back to the other part of OP).

[FinsterRufus]

Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken

What I'm saying is that we give kids the "everything you do is wonderful" vibe, along with "no matter what you do, or how well you do / don't do, you get PRAISEPRAISEPRAISE."

For kids who have been conditioned that everything they do is just gold-standard worthy,
that every acting-out they do is just an expression of their personality,
that ever weird tick they have really makes them a special-special snowflake,
the bullying is viewed as just another acceptable, "excuseable" thing they do.

They cannot be blamed for anything.
Their classroom behavior? ADD.
Their incomplete homework? Incompetent teachers.
Their soccer ball that didn't go into the goal? No problem. You'll still get a trophy.
Their screaming bloody murder because they must have that candy bar in the grocery store? Low blood sugar.

NOTHING is their fault.
Not behavior, not homework, not subpar sports ability, not a tantrum,
and certainly not bullying.

I'm not saying this is how society wants bullies to feel,
but rather that this is how we (well, not ME, but...) condition kids from an early age, so what do we expect?

The bully that bullied me when I was at school in the Jurassic certainly wasn't treated like that at home. Or anywhere for that matter. Not by a long shot. I don't think any bullies back then were treated that way. And there were still bullies. So I don't see the correlation.

Plus, I keep hearing this about modern parenting, but I don't do it, other parents on this board don't do it (mostly, and if they do people will quite happily point out the error of their ways) and nobody I know IRL does it.

So apart from the odd parent and a few trophies, I'm not sure that the views you express above are shared by the majority.

And, recognizing that some kids do in fact have issues that they need to work with is a step forward, IMO. That's not necessarily excusing them. It's helping them. For the most part. There's always exceptions.

[AnnaNomus]

Just reading about this tragic case here Staten Island Teen Bullied Before Taking Her Life - Yahoo! News, and although the headlines scream 'bullying,' the suicide note in the girl's pocket mentioned a break up with a boyfriend, and that she could not live without the boyfriend. Also, this young lady had been leaving suicidal messages on her Facebook page dating back to September.

Not to say that bullying wasn't a factor in her misery, because I'm sure that it was. But I do believe that most of these suicides have other factors involved besides bullying. Not to excuse the bullies at all, because I find it utterly appalling that they continued to post degrading messages on her page as she lay dying.

But what I don't understand is, the bullying was never reported. Amanda begged her parents not to intervene for fear of the bullying intensifying. So, I guess, nothing was done. Did her parents have access to or read any of her FB posts? Did anybody see that she was suicidal and depressed and try to help her? My teenage nieces have facebook pages, and not only are their parents "friends" who can see what they post, so are a number of other relatives, including me. If I saw my niece posting messages about wanting to die, I would go straight to her mother and tell her and INSIST that she do something about it. It seems to me that everyone just kind of stood by, then when this poor girl finally takes her life, they point to the bullies. Maybe there's more to the story than what I'm seeing, but it looks to me that NOBODY tried to help this girl in any way, including the people closest to her.

[JustJulia]

Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain

I understand what you're saying, I just disagree that a) this is the norm and b) that there is evidence that this type of environment is what leads to the bullying we're reading about in the media or experiencing with our kids, respectively. I can definitively say that there is no evidence that this type of environment leads to suicidal behavior (to bring us back to the other part of OP).

Originally Posted by FinsterRufus

The bully that bullied me when I was at school in the Jurassic certainly wasn't treated like that at home. Or anywhere for that matter. Not by a long shot. I don't think any bullies back then were treated that way. And there were still bullies. So I don't see the correlation.

Plus, I keep hearing this about modern parenting, but I don't do it, other parents on this board don't do it (mostly, and if they do people will quite happily point out the error of their ways) and nobody I know IRL does it.

So apart from the odd parent and a few trophies, I'm not sure that the views you express above are shared by the majority.

And, recognizing that some kids do in fact have issues that they need to work with is a step forward, IMO. That's not necessarily excusing them. It's helping them. For the most part. There's always exceptions.

I agree.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by FinsterRufus

So I don't see the correlation.

Not even a correlation. Forget about causation.

[omigawd]

Originally Posted by lauramc27

This is exactly what I have been saying. Until the other kids step up against the bullies nothing will change. I think it is horrible that out of a class of 22 only one child stepped up. That speaks volumes. I have always taught my daughter to not only stick up for herself but to step up if she sees someone being bullied and until all kids do this bullying will continue.

And this, "be nice to your bully" crap being taught in my daughter school is just that, crap. Why would you ask a child to ask their tormentor to play ball with them? That's setting the poor kid up for more bullying, IMO.

In the parochial school that my daughter used to attend, there was one little beetch that was a major bully. Of course, her parents thought the sun rose and set on this brat and she could do no wrong. She bullied and tormented one girl from Kindergarten until 3rd grade when the girl's parents took her out of the school because, of course, the school would do nothing about it (even though they claimed "zero tolerance") The same brat harassed and bullied my daughter --- even telling her one time that I can't possibly be her mother because my daughter is olive-skinned and I'm white. I reported that to the school as racist and harassing. They did nothing. The brat then SLAPPED another girl while they were waiting on line for something. What happend? That girl's mother invited the brat over for a playdate. She said "Oh, maybe we should be NICE to her and she'll change". Nonsense. While on the "playdate", she BIT the mother's other daughter because she wouldn't let her use the scooter immediately when she asked for it.

This was just a rotten kid and her main problem was that her parents led her to believe she was always right, she was oh, so special, and if there is ever a problem, it's the other person's fault. For this brat's 6th birthday, her parents threw a ridiculous party: catered food for the adults, McDs for the kids, pony rides, cartoon characters, a DJ, a bubble and fog machine, etc etc etc. The cake? It would have put any wedding cake to shame: It was several tiers high (NOT layers, tiers with the sticks in between) and on top, there was a Barbie princess made of cake. It was absurd. I said if this is what they do for her at 6, what are they going to do at 10? at 13? at 15? (they were hispanic). To this day, the girl is a trouble-making brat.

[Alltheusernamesaretaken]

Originally Posted by FinsterRufus

The bully that bullied me when I was at school in the Jurassic certainly wasn't treated like that at home. Or anywhere for that matter. Not by a long shot. I don't think any bullies back then were treated that way. And there were still bullies. So I don't see the correlation.

The correlation is not about the bullying itself, but the
idea that the bullies would be ganging up and posting disgusting things
on the poor deceased girl's Facebook page, and feel comfortable doing so.

Bullies used to exist in a vacuum and didn't appreciate being called out.
They'd pick on the weak, who couldn't fight back, and motor away from anyone who called them on their behavior.

Plus, I keep hearing this about modern parenting, but I don't do it, other parents on this board don't do it (mostly, and if they do people will quite happily point out the error of their ways) and nobody I know IRL does it.

I think if we're "old school" enough to take our concerns to this board, we're not Those Kinds of Parents.
Those Parents cannot be criticized or questioned, so they wouldn't post
for anyone to pick apart their actions.

[NEOhioBound]

I remember there wasn't much bullying in my day growing up (at least where I grew up) because if you had an issue with someone or they with you, you would meet outside in the schoolyard, have a fist fight and then it would be over with.

Often I see kids praised from everything they do, but they are never given any negative feedback because their little feelings might get hurt. I think we are creating a generation of children who don't know how to handle and cope with constructive criticism, anything negative about how they act, talk or think and we build them up on these pedestals that they don't deserve to be on. They are being taught that everything they do is right and that they can never fail or aren't allowed to fail because society of a whole is afraid to see just how much these kids really could bounce back if they were just allowed to again for once