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Old 01-06-2012, 07:45 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 88,958,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobokenkitchen View Post
I guess this is my European upbringing talking...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobokenkitchen View Post
One does have to wonder how on earth people in countries that don't allow guns manage to survive at all.
I don't appreciate your attitude that Europeans are more refined than Americans. The very reason we have a right to bear arms is because England oppressed our forefathers. Why are you even living in the US if you think it's better in Europe?
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:56 PM
 
3,490 posts, read 7,212,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I don't appreciate your attitude that Europeans are more refined than Americans. The very reason we have a right to bear arms is because England oppressed our forefathers. Why are you even living in the US if you think it's better in Europe?
EDITED from what I wanted to say. Meh - HOpes you are not playing nice, but you're not worth it. If this is your attitude then there really is no point in ever trying to have a discussion with you. Ever.

Edit again: Also I went to school overseas as a kid so I am somewhat used to the particularly unpleasant 'go back to your own country' argument (usually used when the person has no actual argument and is just trying to be as hurtful as possible). I've just never before heard it from someone over the age of 17. So congrats - a first there.
Oh and as to why I live here - it might be difficult to explain to my husband that I can't live with him anymore because I don't agree with his country's gun laws. I mean come on Hopes. Disagreement on this forum is allowed without throwing petty insults and unpleasantries around.

Last edited by Hobokenkitchen; 01-06-2012 at 08:46 PM..
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Yep...and if that person is evil enough to be breaking into my house, I am going to ASSUME that they're evil enough to kill us!

Here's how the conversation with the police would go....."Did you see a weapon?" Me: "I don't know" Law: "So you don't know if they were armed?" Me: "I don't know" Law: "Did you know they didn't have a gun?" Me: "No" Law: "You shot an unarmed man" Me: "I assumed he was armed. I didn't think anyone would be breaking into someone's house if they weren't armed. I wasn't going to wait long enough to find out he was! He broke in. I didn't assume he was here to bring me a check from Publisher's Clearing House!"
I don't agree with the idea that an intruder has to be armed with a weapon to justify killing them.

I am sure the man who was breaking into this young mother's home was quite capable of killing her and her baby without a weapon.

Most of the men I know could easily overpower and kill me with their bare hands.

Under the Castle Doctrine.....an intruder does not have to be armed to justify the use deadly force........as it should be.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:51 AM
 
1,425 posts, read 3,521,622 times
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My momma is european born and bred, came over here when she married my daddy. She is what I affectionately refer to as a tree-hugging, everybody loving, hippie. I was raised in the south. Most people had shotguns behind the front door. My momma doesn't like guns or violence and can (creepily sometimes) find something good to say about anybody. I can tell you that if it were me sitting there with my infant son waiting more than 20 minutes for help, she would be telling me to shoot.... not aim for kneecaps, but aim at whatever moves. The gun I've seen in pictures is a side-by-side double barrel shotgun. These guns are used mostly for foul hunting..... affectionately called 'turkey guns'. The way these guns work (as portrayed in Hope's photos) is to spray a pattern of pellets in a circle grouping. At the close range of the interior of a manufactured house, the grouping is smaller and more intense. If in that split second before she pulled the trigger, she could calculate where to aim she aimed fr his knees and shot the floor in front of him, we would have a completely different tragedy. Also, how do we know she wasn't aiming for his knees?

We are not celebrating that this amazing woman took a life, we are celebrating that this young, grieving widow with an infant was strong enough to protect herself and her son with the only tools she had.... the 911 dispatcher, a shotgun, and the strength to stand between her child and harm's way after waiting over 20 minutes for somebody.... anybody to help her. Look at young people today.... the 18, 20, 25 year olds I know wouldn't have the ability to do much else than sit and whimper in the corner and wail about how unfair life is and why isn't someone here to help.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,653,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
I don't agree with the idea that an intruder has to be armed with a weapon to justify killing them.

I am sure the man who was breaking into this young mother's home was quite capable of killing her and her baby without a weapon.

Most of the men I know could easily overpower and kill me with their bare hands.

Under the Castle Doctrine.....an intruder does not have to be armed to justify the use deadly force........as it should be.
I don't agree with that idea either. Like I said, if someone is breaking into my house, I AM going to assume that they're going to kill someone here. I'm am going to assume that, since they did not come to my door, introduce themselves, and ask to be invited in, they're dangerous and mean to do us harm. I am going to presume their actions to be deadly and act accordingly.
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Old 01-07-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,226,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinmomma View Post
We are not celebrating that this amazing woman took a life, we are celebrating that this young, grieving widow with an infant was strong enough to protect herself and her son with the only tools she had.... the 911 dispatcher, a shotgun, and the strength to stand between her child and harm's way after waiting over 20 minutes for somebody.... anybody to help her. Look at young people today.... the 18, 20, 25 year olds I know wouldn't have the ability to do much else than sit and whimper in the corner and wail about how unfair life is and why isn't someone here to help.
Yes, this exactly.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:07 AM
 
775 posts, read 954,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinmomma View Post
Look at young people today.... the 18, 20, 25 year olds I know wouldn't have the ability to do much else than sit and whimper in the corner and wail about how unfair life is and why isn't someone here to help.
This comment annoys the hell out of me. I hope you aren’t close with any of these <25 year olds you know (or think you know) because I’m sure they’d be thrilled to know what you think of them. If someone of any age has a gun next to them, I don’t think they are going to sit there and watch in amusement as someone kills their baby. Sorry, but I don’t think you have a clue about what “young people today” are like. Survival is a basic instinct. So is protecting one's young. This woman and most people probably would have done the same exact thing to save themselves, even if they didn’t have a young child. This is why I can’t understand why people are acting as if she did something extraordinary and calling her a “hero” (although I’m all for her doing what she did). To me, a hero is someone who goes out of their way to save a stranger. A parent saving their own child, IMO, is expected. Who wouldn’t?

Just putting this out there (not directed at you rockinmomma) my father grew up in Europe for most of his life, owns a handgun, and is all for using guns in the home as protection. He introduced me to guns when I was young (8 or 9) but I ended up being more anti-gun then him and I’m American. I’m not sure where this Europeans being against/Americans being for, thing came from. While I don’t agree with Hobokenkitchen at all, Hopes’ comment was way off-base because that’s not what was said or implied at all. It’s amazing how some people will pick words out of thin air and put them in other people’s mouths just to prove a point.

Last edited by luckynumber4; 01-07-2012 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:03 PM
 
1,226 posts, read 1,980,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakeneko View Post
While I think it's great that she saved herself and her son...

there's just something "off" about this story to me. I'm not sure what it is though.... I think I saw something that said she thought she recognized one of the men as someone who had been stalking her? I know they said the one intruder had a knife, stalkers usually act alone though..

Have any theories about why they were breaking in come out? Her home looked pretty modest, maybe they thought she had drugs (due to her husband's cancer treatment?)
There is something very off to this story. I am all for fer shooting the intruder, and I would have already reloaded, waiting for anymore movement (there was a second intruder, who ran away but now gets charged with murder). But the facts do seem very strange. Her husband was 58 years old, yuck. And these same intruders came before on his funeral day. And who has time to move a sofa while someone is trying to break in? And does it really take 21 minutes+ to beak into a mobile home?
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:44 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,539,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
There is something very off to this story. I am all for fer shooting the intruder, and I would have already reloaded, waiting for anymore movement (there was a second intruder, who ran away but now gets charged with murder). But the facts do seem very strange. Her husband was 58 years old, yuck. And these same intruders came before on his funeral day. And who has time to move a sofa while someone is trying to break in? And does it really take 21 minutes+ to beak into a mobile home?
I read somewhere (and now I can't find the article) that the intruders were looking to take her deceased husband's painkillers, so they were probably known to the family.'

Here...http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...ZYGFhC9AGgn4oJ

If you search goggle news for mother/baby/painkillers, there are a number of articles that mention the intruders were searching for painkillers. I think mobile homes probably have LESS access points then a house, since there aren't that many large windows. The intruders were also high on painkillers, so may not have been able to figure out how to break in easily
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
There is something very off to this story. I am all for fer shooting the intruder, and I would have already reloaded, waiting for anymore movement (there was a second intruder, who ran away but now gets charged with murder). But the facts do seem very strange. Her husband was 58 years old, yuck. And these same intruders came before on his funeral day. And who has time to move a sofa while someone is trying to break in? And does it really take 21 minutes+ to beak into a mobile home?
It would only take a few seconds to slide a sofa over in front of the door.

These guys weren't breaking in like a SWAT team with a battering ram..... and, as someone else mentioned, they were high on painkillers.

Another point, I have had knowledge of people who were dying, or had died from cancer.....that does not mean I was known to them.

If it was mentioned in his obit that he died of cancer, one could assume there is a good chance of pain killers still being in the home so soon after the death.

They could have also simply overheard a conversation in a bar or a hardware store, etc. about the situation.
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