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Old 01-08-2012, 09:55 AM
 
15,302 posts, read 16,854,240 times
Reputation: 15025

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Please review Good Samaritan laws, they do not cover health care workers not following the laws governing their practice.

I am an RN, my area of expertise is Pediatric ICU. I have known many nurses lose their licence for giving emergency medications during cardiac arrest situations if the medications were not prescribed.

People suggesting the nurse should just give the medication regardless of the legality should attempt to change the law, because suggesting people do something that will impact them personally, professionally, and financially for the rest of their lives is all well and good when it doesn't impact YOU one iota!
Yes, I am sure that is true, but I don't see how anyone nurse or not could stand by and not do something when a child is dying before their eyes.

And even with authorization what happens when there is no nurse?

The News Tribune (Lite) - Parents seeking millions against school district for asthma attack death

Quote:
The claim charges that school staff failed to follow Mercedes’ “valid care plan in place in case of situations involving sudden and severe respiratory symptoms, such as wheezing, shortness of breath and difficulty breathing.”

Mercedes’ care plan, the claim says, was signed by a school nurse on Aug. 29, “just five weeks prior to Mercedes’ death.”

There was no school nurse in the health room the morning Mercedes died. Schools don’t routinely have nurses on site, as they rotate between buildings.

On Sept. 24, two weeks before her death, a fresh Albuterol inhaler and EpiPen were provided to the school, the claim says.

Larson prescribed the EpiPen, an injectable dose of epinephrine, for an allergic emergency, records show. Mercedes suffered both food allergies and asthma.

A care plan prepared by school nurse Heidi Christensen notes Mercedes “has Benadryl, an EpiPen and an inhaler in the health room,” and lists Larson’s name and phone number.

Larson’s orders don’t stipulate the EpiPen must be used in an asthma attack, but the family’s attorney, Thaddeus Martin, believes it would have saved her life. He describes it as “adrenaline to be used in emergency situations when Mercedes had breathing difficulty.”

Since a nurse signed the plan, Mercedes’ parents believed a school staff member with health training would know what the medication would do and would administer it in a crisis, he added.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:06 AM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,475,967 times
Reputation: 25990
Sad case. But, I think parents ultimately are responsible for educating their children. Even one that age, should be sent to school with a bag of food, and instructed to only eat that food.

And, when the parent enrolled the child, have a written plan, signed, with copies, of what the school should do in case of emergency. There should have been a protocol. And if the school denied the medication, make a homeschool plan, or transfer to a different school, where more medical services were available.

Ultimately, the school is not responsible for providing medication for a child.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:07 AM
 
2,159 posts, read 3,736,729 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Please review Good Samaritan laws, they do not cover health care workers not following the laws governing their practice.

I am an RN, my area of expertise is Pediatric ICU. I have known many nurses lose their licence for giving emergency medications during cardiac arrest situations if the medications were not prescribed.

People suggesting the nurse should just give the medication regardless of the legality should attempt to change the law, because suggesting people do something that will impact them personally, professionally, and financially for the rest of their lives is all well and good when it doesn't impact YOU one iota!
And another reason is that even those who have knowing broken the laws and administered medication without proper documents (even those who have just stopped along side road accidents to assist) and if person still ends up passing away or with life long injuries, the person who tried to help ends up getting sued by the family members. Most times it is a lose-lose situation and with this sue happy nation, you can't put yourself in that kind of situation anymore unfortunately
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:14 AM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,187,771 times
Reputation: 19651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
This has been debated for a long time now. Most school nurses are not RN's. Many schools do not even have school nurses. Someone is going to have to make the decision to give the Epi-Pen, and if there is no nurse, then who? It would be a logistical (and sadly litigious) nightmare to have people working in school dispensing drugs without prescriptions.
Every monday I take my students out of the school for the day. The kids bring their epi-pens, but dealing with the logistics of their allergies (and other medical issues) is becoming over-whelming. Thank goodness, they are high school kids who can help manage their own issues. I have no idea how a classroom teacher, especially an elementary teacher with kids who are not yet capable of helping out, without a medical degree is supposed to make life and death decisions and then be held liable for those decisions.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:24 AM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,187,771 times
Reputation: 19651
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellar View Post
Oh good gravy..Have you ever seen a child in anaphylactic shock?

Imagine you are in a nurse's office, and a child with a known allergy is brought in. You learn she ate something she is allergic to. She has indicated she is having a reaction and is having trouble breathing. The child is panicking. She is terrified. Don't look in her eyes or you may see a look you don't want to see as the child's airway closes and her heart starts failing.

You know that you are standing right next to a cabinet with probably about a dozen identical Epipen shots. You know one of those shots could stop the terror and save her life.

Instead, you say to her--"I'm sorry. I don't have your paperwork."

There is a point when you don't worry about your own butt. There is a point where Good Samaritan laws come into play. There is a point when you understand why the Food and Allergy Network is trying to get legislation passed that would allow and encourage all schools to stock extra Epipens.

When my daughter was the same age as this girl she went into anaphylactic shock after eating at a restaurant. During the turmoil, I did not realize I gave her an expired Epipen shot. Giving expired medicine is also illegal at school (even if it is only a matter of days). Fortunately the medicine worked and no one put me in handcuffs for saving my daughter's life.
In my state good samaritan law's only protect certified first responders. Teachers are NOT covered under the good samarian law.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:46 AM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,187,771 times
Reputation: 19651
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Yes, I am sure that is true, but I don't see how anyone nurse or not could stand by and not do something when a child is dying before their eyes.

And even with authorization what happens when there is no nurse?

The News Tribune (Lite) - Parents seeking millions against school district for asthma attack death
I have had first aid training even if it is not longer current, and I would not know to give a medication prescribed for an allergy to someone suffering from an asthma attack.

Especially, as they were giving her the prescribed medicine (the inhaler) and that the directions in the health plan did not indicate the epinephrine for an asthma attack.

I am a single parent, responsible for my own child and my siblings, if I get sued or worse gone to jail, I have abdicated my responsibility to them. I understand the sentiment, but no one can say how they would behave or how OTHERS should behave, until they have been in that situation.

My bf and I once saved a little boy who got caught in a rip current at out local beach. The lifeguards were off duty and swimmers really shouldn't be out but we were surfing a little ways down the beach. We saw the mom yelling and pointing, my bf paddled there, grabbed the kids and got him inshore. I got one breath in the kid before he puked up the water and never actually did CPR.

So I know I would respond outside of school, but in the situation like the one in the articles given, I have no idea what I would do.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:43 PM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,090,474 times
Reputation: 3454
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Sad case. But, I think parents ultimately are responsible for educating their children. Even one that age, should be sent to school with a bag of food, and instructed to only eat that food.

And, when the parent enrolled the child, have a written plan, signed, with copies, of what the school should do in case of emergency. There should have been a protocol. And if the school denied the medication, make a homeschool plan, or transfer to a different school, where more medical services were available.

Ultimately, the school is not responsible for providing medication for a child.
I agree. As a father of a 7 yr old with a food allergies (milk, egg, peanut) it is up to us to communicate effectively with all involved and to make sure the epi-pens at the school are up to date and not expired. Also we provide the benadryl needed, as often that is the first line of defense. He has had reactions to milk and benadryl took care of the rashes, hives, swelling. We label food for him and bring to school cupcakes for the school to freeze and to use on days when their are special treats for birthdays, etc. Each year we sit down the the nurse and teacher and have forms ready and signed so everyone knows his/her role.

Dan
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,435 posts, read 41,667,043 times
Reputation: 47005
To add fuel to the flame: One more thing for parents to worry about.

New peanut butter Cheerios triggers anger from parents - On Parenting - The Washington Post
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,798,650 times
Reputation: 14677
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
To add fuel to the flame: One more thing for parents to worry about.

New peanut butter Cheerios triggers anger from parents - On Parenting - The Washington Post
The response from the parents in this particular case is ridiculous. Honey Nut Cheerios have been around for a long time, and pose the exact same problems as the new Peanut Butter Cheerios. My son avoids cheerios, except for when he's at home, because so many people dispense cereal into different containers, and it is very difficult to distinguish between honey nut and regular cheerios.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:32 AM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,623,527 times
Reputation: 5534
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
How sad. That is not right that the school refused the epi pen.

Eh so the mother is claiming now. But if you were a neglectful parent who did this then blaming someone else due to your guilt is a normal reaction.
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