components of a discipline strategy (toy, boy, clever, child)

[NJGOAT]

LOL! What do you have against learning new ideas from books? I am guessing your much revered teachers are asking your children to do exactly that.

Nothing wrong with learning from books, but how many books on parenting or studies have you read that present a contrarian view to the methods that you inherently believe are correct? My guess would be almost none. You aren't reading and citing these books to expand your knowledge, you're doing it to validate the method you have chosen.

You're reading Adam Smith and leaving Karl Marx on the shelf. You're reading St. Augustine and ignoring Nietzsche. You're reading Bacon and forgetting about Locke.

Ah but are you implying it? Yes, you are!

I never implied anything of the sort. Merely pointed out that there may be other factors that drive the methods one chooses.

[CharlotteGal]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

Why do you assume that there is no joy, trust and partnership in my home? There may be the occasional yelling and punishment, but my family is just as "good" as yours. The problem is, even if I allow you to have your parenting style and accept that it worked out great for your kids (even if I criticize or question it), you seem to want to insist that any method that is not yours is less and will result in failure. Perhaps a better way to put it would be that your family is somehow "better" because of how you raised them. To that I could only respond that your family is "better" because they have only ever been measured against themselves.

I would love to see where I've said any of those things. I don't mince words, I don't say what I don't mean (unless I'm rushed, sometimes it happens). I have NEVER said those things.

If you are feeling that I am saying that, that's on you. Really.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

Hmmm I'll have to chew on that a while.

Don't waste too much time chewing on that cud. As I mentioned in the "other" thread, in somebodynew's world all of the elements, including punishment and consequences, exist just like in anyone elses. She just prefers to call them a different name and then insist that what she does is different.

Making a child who doesn't get along with other kids in daycare sit next to her and not go out for playtime isn't "punishment" or a "consequence", it's a "logical teaching moment designed to allow the child time to self-realize that they need to correct their behavior".

Of course, not being allowed to go out and play is essentially being punished for not living up to the boundaries and expectations that she had set. I just don't see why we have to call a spade a heart when it's really just a spade. If anything I think it weakens the otherwise excellent points that are being made.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by CharlotteGal

I would love to see where I've said any of those things. I don't mince words, I don't say what I don't mean (unless I'm rushed, sometimes it happens). I have NEVER said those things.

If you are feeling that I am saying that, that's on you. Really.

I was responding to that one quoted piece, but it was a general vibe I got from a group of your posts. Perhaps I am looking for intent where none exists, but I got the feeling that you drew a strong distinction between "your method" and "everyone elses method"; wherein everyone else's method was inherently wrong and the only reason people don't follow your method is becasue they "don't like their kids"; and the other methods couldn't possibly foster the kind of things like "partnership, trust, joy, etc." in the same way that your method does.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

Don't waste too much time chewing on that cud. As I mentioned in the "other" thread, in somebodynew's world all of the elements, including punishment and consequences, exist just like in anyone elses. She just prefers to call them a different name and then insist that what she does is different.

Your failure to comprehend a fairly simple concept is astounding.

Making a child who doesn't get along with other kids in daycare sit next to her and not go out for playtime isn't "punishment" or a "consequence", it's a "logical teaching moment designed to allow the child time to self-realize that they need to correct their behavior".

How many times do I need to use the word consequence in order for you to understand that I believe quite strongly in dealing with the consequences of ones actions?

I was right in the first place to be done with you as you have no interest in understanding anyone else' words or thoughts.

[Kibbiekat]

Originally Posted by somebodynew

Your failure to comprehend a fairly simple concept is astounding.


How many times do I need to use the word consequence in order for you to understand that I believe quite strongly in dealing with the consequences of ones actions?

I was right in the first place to be done with you as you have no interest in understanding anyone else' words or thoughts.

wow. talk about ironic.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

Nothing wrong with learning from books, but how many books on parenting or studies have you read that present a contrarian view to the methods that you inherently believe are correct?

No actually I sought out books because I was concerned that what I thought was wrong. So I read a bunch of varied ideas. I thought does that make sense to me? I tried things and asked myself are those the expected goals I am trying to achieve?

My guess would be almost none. You aren't reading and citing these books to expand your knowledge, you're doing it to validate the method you have chosen.

Projection? Why did I?

Cheers.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by rkb0305

wow. talk about ironic.

You can imagine that it is frustrating to be told that you are saying something you are not saying. Why she has such a stick in her butt over having a different opinion than someone on an internet forum I cannot fathom. But attributing dishonest motives to me is unkind.

I will get over it.

[NJGOAT]

Your failure to comprehend a fairly simple concept is astounding.

Your ability to turn a fairly simple concept into something grossly complex is also astounding. Of course, you choose to do it with semantics so that we can all beat our heads against the wall talking about the same macro ideas.

How many times do I need to use the word consequence in order for you to understand that I believe quite strongly in dealing with the consequences of ones actions?

The issue is that you insist that your consequences are somehow inherently different from my consequences based on a subtle twist of logic.

I've gone down this road before and you keep dodging the question. Every parent deals with kids who don't pick up their toys...

CharlotteGal ostensibly does nothing about it or does it for them, because they are just expressing themselves or because they really want all their toys in a pile on the floor.

NJGOAT expects that his kids will clean up their toys at the appointed time and clearly details the reasons for doing so as well as clearly outlining what the consequence is for not doing it, which would be having any toys not cleaned up and put away taken until they demonstrate that they want to meet the expectation.

The above are essentially two extremes based on the people in this thread. What does somebodynew do? My only assumption is that you aren't answering because answering will simply prove the point that your doing essentially what I am doing, but calling it something different.

I was right in the first place to be done with you as you have no interest in understanding anyone else' words or thoughts.

Then help me and actually respond to all of the points and questions that I make and put forward, don't just give a trite response that ignores the meat of the topic.

No actually I sought out books because I was concerned that what I thought was wrong. So I read a bunch of varied ideas. I thought does that make sense to me? I tried things and asked myself are those the expected goals I am trying to achieve?

Projection? Why did I?

I apparently made an accurate assessment. You read a bunch of books until you found the one that appealed to you and esposed the methodology and goals that you wanted. If the "method" did not appeal to you then you put it aside even if that method may have ultimately been the "better" one or produced a "better" result. You did not go out seeking information on the best way, you sought validation for your way. There's one of those subtle logic twists again.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by somebodynew

You can imagine that it is frustrating to be told that you are saying something you are not saying. Why she has such a stick in her butt over having a different opinion than someone on an internet forum I cannot fathom. But attributing dishonest motives to me is unkind.

I will get over it.

Why must you take this all so personal? For the record "she" is a he.