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Old 01-17-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Hudson County, NJ
1,493 posts, read 2,592,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
If we're just talking popular culture of the last 50 to 55 years I can assure you rock musicians have been singing about these subjects since the 1950's. Yep. Pills, suicide, murder, sex. Hip hop and screamo did not invent it. Not by a long shot.

I don't doubt it, but can you give me some main stream artists that sing about these topics?

There is a difference between also referring to these topics in a subtle way and having a whole album about the same negative influences.

Edit - As mentioned earlier, I always hear about the example that when your parents were growing up, these certain artists were "bad influences", and it turns out that they weren't all that bad, Elvis for example. So what is your point. You want us to say and think that these artists nowadays aren't bad influences? Their topics they sing about are okay, and in 40 years will be commonly accepted? Do any of the people that say this actually pay attention to a lot of these lyrics? I'm 28, I listen to this stuff, I'm not an angel, not uptight, but I don't have to be a genius to see that the direction and perception it puts in young kids mind is not ideal, especially when many act on impulse, trends, and peers.


If you have two kids, one listens to and enjoys classical music along with his peers, and one likes raw and modern hip hop along with his peers. Who is more likely to abide by the law?

Last edited by nowitsshowtime; 01-17-2012 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:11 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,380,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
I do agree that like-minded parents and/or kids probably seek each other out. But my reference pool is larger than my friends or my kids' friends- I was an adolescent therapist for years. Honestly, the super permissive style that is referred to in this thread as being omnipresent was a pretty rare thing, even in clinical practice. I'm not saying that some people don't parent as buddies rather than parents, just that I think the guesstimates as to how many parents do this are greatly exaggerated. JMHO.
Right. I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just to be clearer, I agreed that it should be described more as poor parenting rather than parents who behave like friends.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:12 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 19,788,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
If we're just talking popular culture of the last 50 to 55 years I can assure you rock musicians have been singing about these subjects since the 1950's. Yep. Pills, suicide, murder, sex. Hip hop and screamo did not invent it. Not by a long shot.
If you took alcohol, sex, lies, and murder out of the plot of many operas there would be no plot left. People have been singing about sex and drinking for much longer than the past 50 years.

Rigoletto premiered in 1851. The aria
Questa o quella opens with the line "This woman or that is the same to me" and is all about the Duke of Mantua's sexual exploits. Of course there are many more like that but that one just popped into my head.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,236,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan View Post
Right. I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just to be clearer, I agreed that it should be described more as poor parenting rather than parents who behave like friends.
Gotcha- sorry, I'm having some cognitive issues this morning, apparently! Good point about the language, as well.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:14 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,380,038 times
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Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
Gotcha- sorry, I'm having some cognitive issues this morning, apparently! Good point about the language, as well.
No, poor writing skills on my part. You are fine.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,840,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
If you took alcohol, sex, lies, and murder out of the plot of many operas there would be no plot left. People have been singing about sex and drinking for much longer than the past 50 years.

Rigoletto premiered in 1851. The aria
Questa o quella opens with the line "This woman or that is the same to me" and is all about the Duke of Mantua's sexual exploits. Of course there are many more like that but that one just popped into my head.
Exactly. Look at the story of Madame Butterfly. A US Naval officer marries a 15 year-old girl, who eventually kills herself.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,236,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan View Post
No, poor writing skills on my part. You are fine.
Lol, well that last part's debatable!
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,868 posts, read 59,899,051 times
Reputation: 27145
THe list is endless. Boys ae particularly messed up becuase they are taught that women are their equal or superior in every way, plus they can have babies. So what is the pupose of men? No longer protecter, hunter, breadwinner, muscle, mechanic, now the role is sperm donor and that is about it. Chivalry is not only dying, it is unwanted in many instances. No wonder so many guys think they may as well lay on the couch and play video games. Our soceity gives them no idea of what they are supposed to be. No concept for a roel model. No definition of what it means to be a man. Nowadays woemen are men and woemen too and men are . . . nothing.

Then you have all the crazy experimental child rearing ideas. "Make everything fair" Praise and awards for everyone" No discipline, no negative feedback. They try to eliminate competition. They do not want anone to succeed above others. Everyone shuld succeed equally. That means that you have to drag the achievers down tothe lowest level of success amongst their peers. our efforts to give everyone higher self esteem have backfired and instead almost everyone has lower self esteem. Wendy got an achievement award, but then so did bettey the stoner who goes to class once a week if it is not inconvenient. Suddenly Wendy realizes that her achievment put her on par with Betty the stoner. Why bother?

The effort to remove faith from our society also has an impact. What are we here for? What is our purpose? Worse yet, many kids are taught that there is really no right or wrong, just varied preferences. No one is evil or bad, they are just different. No one is good, no particular behaviour is better, it is just different.

Now throw int he ever more permissive society where kids are given more freedom than their maturity warrants, bombard them constantly with bad messages in the media and on the internet, have them repeatedly clik on Kil kill kill kill kill kill as fast as they can and watch their weapon hack or blow off body parts in graphic detail. . .

Gee I wonder why things seem to be a mess.


Actually what I marvel at is the fact that there are still so many well balanced good, selfless young adults out there. How did that happen?
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:30 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,380,038 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
THe list is endless. Boys ae particularly messed up becuase they are taught that women are their equal or superior in every way, plus they can have babies. So what is the pupose of men? No longer protecter, hunter, breadwinner, muscle, mechanic, now the role is sperm donor and that is about it. Chivalry is not only dying, it is unwanted in many instances. No wonder so many guys think they may as well lay on the couch and play video games. Our soceity gives them no idea of what they are supposed to be. No concept for a roel model. No definition of what it means to be a man. Nowadays woemen are men and woemen too and men are . . . nothing.

Then you have all the crazy experimental child rearing ideas. "Make everything fair" Praise and awards for everyone" No discipline, no negative feedback. They try to eliminate competition. They do not want anone to succeed above others. Everyone shuld succeed equally. That means that you have to drag the achievers down tothe lowest level of success amongst their peers. our efforts to give everyone higher self esteem have backfired and instead almost everyone has lower self esteem. Wendy got an achievement award, but then so did bettey the stoner who goes to class once a week if it is not inconvenient. Suddenly Wendy realizes that her achievment put her on par with Betty the stoner. Why bother?

The effort to remove faith from our society also has an impact. What are we here for? What is our purpose? Worse yet, many kids are taught that there is really no right or wrong, just varied preferences. No one is evil or bad, they are just different. No one is good, no particular behaviour is better, it is just different.

Now throw int he ever more permissive society where kids are given more freedom than their maturity warrants, bombard them constantly with bad messages in the media and on the internet, have them repeatedly clik on Kil kill kill kill kill kill as fast as they can and watch their weapon hack or blow off body parts in graphic detail. . .

Gee I wonder why things seem to be a mess.


Actually what I marvel at is the fact that there are still so many well balanced good, selfless young adults out there. How did that happen?
Do males really wait for women to slide into their role in order to do the right thing?
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:32 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 19,788,894 times
Reputation: 12056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Then you have all the crazy experimental child rearing ideas. "Make everything fair" Praise and awards for everyone" No discipline, no negative feedback. They try to eliminate competition. They do not want anone to succeed above others.
Do you know any actual people who never discipline?

Do you know any actual people who never give their kids negative feedback?

I do not know any people that are raising their kids this way. Not one person.
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