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Old 01-17-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,228,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post

Actually what I marvel at is the fact that there are still so many well balanced good, selfless young adults out there. How did that happen?
I think that happened because there are parents who teach their kids that being nonjudgmental of differences is different from moral relativism where everything is a good choice; that it doesn't matter what your gender is, you can go as far as your drive, hard work, and talents can take you; that everyone has areas where they do well and areas of weakness - no one is good at everything; that media isn't "real life;" that behaviors have consequences; that life isn't always fair but that's not an excuse to give up; that faith is a personal matter and doesn't have a 1:1 correlation with being a moral or ethical person. I think there are more of these parents out there than people on this thread seem to think.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Hudson County, NJ
1,493 posts, read 2,583,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Exactly. Look at the story of Madame Butterfly. A US Naval officer marries a 15 year-old girl, who eventually kills herself.

Everyone is missing the point in the story. Of course they were talking about sex and drinkng, etc, but its a romanticized book or play or song vs. one completely degrading and illegal (I don't know the story of Madame Butterfly and should have looked it up before I said this, maybe its also illegal if he married the girl in teh states)

But fine you win, treating daughters as hoes, having mistresses, shooting **** day in day out is all good. Doesn't really affect me in the end.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,228,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowitsshowtime View Post
Everyone is missing the point in the story. Of course they were talking about sex and drinkng, etc, but its a romanticized book or play or song vs. one completely degrading and illegal.

But fine you win, treating daughters as hoes, having mistresses, shooting **** day in day out is all good. Doesn't really affect me in the end.
I think the point that is being made is that relative to the culture of the time, the art referenced was risqué. I don't think anyone's saying things in your second paragraph are good, just that it's not so different (relative to the norm) from what came before.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:38 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,368,532 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
I think that happened because there are parents who teach their kids that being nonjudgmental of differences is different from moral relativism where everything is a good choice; that it doesn't matter what your gender is, you can go as far as your drive, hard work, and talents can take you; that everyone has areas where they do well and areas of weakness - no one is good at everything; that media isn't "real life;" that behaviors have consequences; that life isn't always fair but that's not an excuse to give up; that faith is a personal matter and doesn't have a 1:1 correlation with being a moral or ethical person. I think there are more of these parents out there than people on this thread seem to think.
Excellent post.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:40 AM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,627,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
LOL ... brave words spoken by every person before having kids. Check in when she's 14 and let us know how it's going.

I would make a terrible parent i think, as i am awful taking care of kids.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Hudson County, NJ
1,493 posts, read 2,583,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
I think the point that is being made is that relative to the culture of the time, the art referenced was risqué. I don't think anyone's saying things in your second paragraph are good, just that it's not so different (relative to the norm) from what came before.

You're right in a way its not that different, people are pushing boundries through culture, film, music (and it helps get you noticed), but my issue is that a lot of people are saying this and making it sound like its alright, its no big deal, and its acceptable to preach to kids about drugs, sex, violence over and over.

Parents tell kids to stay away from drugs, sex, violence, so why think its alright for someone who influences kids style and lifestyle to repeatedly say it and think its okay because you grew up with Elvis and things are fine.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:53 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,362,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowitsshowtime View Post
I don't doubt it, but can you give me some main stream artists that sing about these topics?
At the risk of sounding like I'm 70 and explaining the 60's..... Here's a few off the top of my head:

White Rabbit: Jefferson Airplane - Drugs. The last lines are "Feed your head! Feed your Head!" They aren't talking about having sprouts for lunch.

Run For Your Life: The Beatles - Violence against women.

Eve of Destruction: Barry McGuire - Anti war protest. Anti military draft. This one really ticked off The Establishment.

Rhapsody in the Rain: Lou Christie - Sex and lots of it. In the car. Banned by many radio stations at the urging of the Catholic church.

House of the Rising Sun: The Animals - Song about a bordello and prostitution

A Day in the Life: The Beatles - Suicide

Along Comes Mary: The Association - Pot (and impotence -wink -)

Please, Please Me - The Beatles - Sex. Man urging woman to... you know.

These songs were on all day, every day. Each of them were massive hits. Believe it or not, those of us listening to them did not turn into raging hippie pot heads who never washed and didn't hold down a job. Some of us actually listened to those songs constantly and still went to school, work, voted and paid our taxes.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 01-17-2012 at 11:11 AM..
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:54 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 35,012,832 times
Reputation: 42372
The Canterbury Tales is the most famous work of Geoffrey Chaucer, who is often known as the father of English literature. It was written in the 14th century, more than half a millennium ago! It is full of sex, deceit, mistresses, scatological humor, swearing, and violence. Read the Miller's Tale and what happened to Absalom when he begged Alison for a kiss in the dark.

The funny thing is that we read the Miller's Tale and the Wife of Bath's Tale in high school. THAT must be what corrupted all of us: a story from more than 500 years ago.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:54 AM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,544,673 times
Reputation: 14279
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowitsshowtime View Post
Everyone is missing the point in the story. Of course they were talking about sex and drinkng, etc, but its a romanticized book or play or song vs. one completely degrading and illegal (I don't know the story of Madame Butterfly and should have looked it up before I said this, maybe its also illegal if he married the girl in teh states)

But fine you win, treating daughters as hoes, having mistresses, shooting **** day in day out is all good. Doesn't really affect me in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
I think the point that is being made is that relative to the culture of the time, the art referenced was risqué. I don't think anyone's saying things in your second paragraph are good, just that it's not so different (relative to the norm) from what came before.
Agree with eastwest's response. It's not about finding what they are saying or doing acceptable, it's about viewing it within the context of what it is, art and expression. Shakespeare was an incredibly risque guy in his day, now it's required reading in school. The underlying themes and messages haven't changed, merely the medium and the language.

Do you honestly listen to music at a superficial level to only hear the words, or do you strive to understand the deeper meaning?

I'm only 31, so I grew up on Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, Linkin Park, etc. and still listen to them. What I will say is that the imagery and message conveyed by most of these artists is very similar to the things that Shakespeare was writing about or contains very relevant political and cultural messages.

If you can't see the parallels between the Montagues and Capulets having a gang war in the streets while Romeo and Juliet are driven to suicide over their forbidden love with some of the lyrics in modern songs, you're not listening very well.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:58 AM
 
11,615 posts, read 19,735,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowitsshowtime View Post
But fine you win, treating daughters as hoes, having mistresses, shooting **** day in day out is all good. Doesn't really affect me in the end.
It's not NEW is what we said.
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