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Old 01-16-2012, 04:27 PM
 
9,018 posts, read 7,946,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowitsshowtime View Post
I'm going to go ahead and say its due to lack of consequences. Parents can't discipline them anymore without the threat of some government agency taking the kids. Teachers can't discipline them either, and the kids are acting up due to lack of discipline at home. And other kids can't even put them in place either, even if its throwing a few punches around without worrying about getting charges placed.

In addition the lack of respect is also due to technology, and I'll say Jackass the show/movie didn't help, and neither did a lot of the pop culture, whether it be hip hop all about guns hoes and money or the screamo genre which is full of sad kids being outcasts.
Dang you brought up something I forgot. A good man I have known my entire life raised his 3 daughters on his own. No mom, no love life. Totally devoted his every waking moment to what they needed, etc. They get to be teenagers, and start going wild, doing the typical rebellious stupid stuff. He tries to discipline them by grounding; doesn't work. Then he takes away their privileges & computers etc; doesn't work. They get so abusive to him, he goes to smack one that called him a filthy name-she threatens to call D.C.F.S.
So your point is well taken

Last edited by believe007; 01-16-2012 at 04:52 PM..
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Well, obviously the statistics for the 99% vs. 1% were made up. The point was to show that there is little value in anecdotal evidence. If the teacher was a middle school teacher, she would see multiple classes each day, multiply that by years of teaching and she may have seen hundreds or even thousands of kids pass through the school. How many of them told her to go eff herself? That one sticks out because it was so egregious, but it proves the point. We as a society focus on the extreme and let it taint our judgement to the whole.
I did not assign value to the story I cited in the sense of statistics. I did no try to make such claim. I cited it as an example of the big picture I observe comparing of the big picture I saw when I was a teenager.
The teacher herself cited it as a general attitude of disrespect she observes on children overall, not to show that many of the exact situation exists all over the place and the same I did. Take care.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:42 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
Reputation: 19636
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Not worse? Why not them trying to look at crime rates as compared with young ages? That is just one area. Check it out. Even though I did not check that myself, I venture to guess it is much higher today than yesterday. I am not referring to petty things like painting on wall or things like that. Teens have done that for years. I am referring to crime like murder, armed robbery, rape, etc. I was a teen in the 50s and we committed a few bad things. I remember but I know we had a sense of respect that was better than today. For example, there is no way I would approach a kid on the street if he was missbehaving. He would curse me, call dad, and dad probably believe the kid before he would believe me. After that he probably wants to beat me up or call the police on me.
Ah so since you didn't personally KNOW anyone raping, or killing as a teenager that means it didn't happen.

And now how many children do you personally know raping and killing people?

As for crime rate it is not possible to compare to a hundred years ago or a thousand years ago because accurate records are not available. What we do not is violent crime (by children and adults) has actually decreased since the late 70s to early 80s, and the murder rate has remained relatively stable.

File:Violent Crime Rates in the United States.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)


Quote:
An example of an attitude that is widespread in school was mentione by a teacher taking a college class I was also attending.
She said this 9 year boy did not do much homework or class assignment and failed the tests. At the end of the school year the kids told the teache that he will pass. She, of course, did not pass him. The next day the teacher was called to the principal's office. The mother was demanding her child pass. The principal turned to the teacher asking (implying compliance) if she could pass the child. She said no and the principal said he would be OK so she said he was going to the next grade. What happened next? The boy turned to the teacher and said "See %^&%$ (female dog), I told you I would pass". What did the principal and mother do? Simply that it was not nice to be that way.
LOL! More anecdotes.

At my school, the kids keep their lockers open. All the time. We haven't had any theft in the 7 years I have been there. Kids keep their wallets, phones, ipods, etc in there.


Quote:
Situations like this would not happen much in my generation in the 50s. That is for sure. The mother would have spanked the kid, gone home and than the dad would be next, and who know what else the principal had done also.
Yes violence against children will absolutely prevent violence by children!!


Quote:
I am not saying our generation did not have certain flaws our parents did not agree with. Of course our parents thought we had it better and were worse. I am simply saying that in some areas today's children are in pretty bad shape when it comes to discipline, respect, and ethics as a whole, there are many excptions of great kids also I must say and that is very refreshing to see. Take care.
It is human nature, as proven by the multitude of direct quotes given in this thread for the prior generation to think the upcoming one is "worse". It does not remotely make it true.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:44 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
As far as the transparency I agree and that can distort data. However, as I said, from what I observed as teen on how my peers talked to teachers, parents, even strangers is different.
Also, why not bring up something that would be hard to hide. Murder on school grounds. I do not know how old you are but I do remember when I was a teen, I only heard of ONE and that was some type of news that so unheard of. How much do you hear about that in schools today? So, again, I do agree that data can be misleading because today we have much better data gathering and many areas were not reported as they are today. What to do next? Base it on what I saw around me. After all we teens were no different when we talked amongst ourselves. We knew who had sex, who was abused, what type of crime was commited. When I compare what I heard and what my teenage kids told me is a worse situation. Take care.
And you do not even stop to think about how much more sensationalized the media is from when you were a kid? Could that maybe account for it?

Ugh.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:46 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
You did not have the internet, nor 24 hour news,nor cable news when you grew up either. So your lack of not hearing about it happening would also be normal.
Good point but here is the flaw. At the time in the 50s when I was growing up I may not have as much information as today. However, as peers of my generation around me tell me their stories coincided with what a lived so it was not just in my area. The difference? That what I lived I was told by my peers 50+ years later. Today? We see the overall picture sooner. Take care.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:54 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Ah so since you didn't personally KNOW anyone raping, or killing as a teenager that means it didn't happen.

And now how many children do you personally know raping and killing people?

As for crime rate it is not possible to compare to a hundred years ago or a thousand years ago because accurate records are not available. What we do not is violent crime (by children and adults) has actually decreased since the late 70s to early 80s, and the murder rate has remained relatively stable.

File:Violent Crime Rates in the United States.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)

Never made a claim that rape did not happen so the comment is irrelevant.

As far as personally knowing people that rape and kill, I have seen some directly and/or indirectly. How? As a Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA) volunteer on behalf of neglected and/or abused children. Also, as a Sexual Trauma and Assault Response Team victim advocate.


LOL! More anecdotes.
I alread explained the intent of the anecdote not as a claim in the sense of statistic.

At my school, the kids keep their lockers open. All the time. We haven't had any theft in the 7 years I have been there. Kids keep their wallets, phones, ipods, etc in there.

Interesting, you LOL about my story as an anecdote and you do the same.


Yes violence against children will absolutely prevent violence by children!!

It seemed to have worked. I am not advocating spanking as the only solutions though. It was one of many other methods used depending on the situation.


It is human nature, as proven by the multitude of direct quotes given in this thread for the prior generation to think the upcoming one is "worse". It does not remotely make it true.
Just as much an observation of yours as it is mine. I believe mine is more accurate than yours. Take care.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:58 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Just as much an observation of yours as it is mine. I believe mine is more accurate than yours. Take care.
The point of my anecdote was to show how meaningless they are. Obviously the kids in my school are a small sample size and thus are statistically meaningless.

But so are all of your anecdotes.

You are relying on personal knowledge versus actual statistics.

You have ignore the FACT that the current violent crime rate is LOWER now than it was nearly 40 yo.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,352 posts, read 3,915,321 times
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I wonder if there's any kind of... evolution, for lack of a better word, with kids? Maybe kids are being born with more awareness, self-awareness, etc. than previous generations? So, something a kid raised in the 50's would accept and put up with, wouldn't be tolerated by most kids today. Only, parents are trying the same disciplinary and punishment tactics, so there's a disconnect between what kids today would respond to, and what parents are doing.

I'm just throwing this thought out there! It's something I've heard before - folks who believe in Indigo Children, etc. though that concept takes what I'm thinking of way out there.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:35 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,363,106 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by believe007 View Post
Dang you brought up something I forgot. A good man I have known my entire life raised his 3 daughters on his own. No mom, no love life. Totally devoted his every waking moment to what they needed, etc. They get to be teenagers, and start going wild, doing the typical rebellious stupid stuff. He tries to discipline them by grounding; doesn't work. Then he takes away their privileges & computers etc; doesn't work. They get so abusive to him, he goes to smack one that called him a filthy name-she threatens to call D.C.F.S.
So your point is well taken
And a final, doesn't work.

Time to find a new solution.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,611,695 times
Reputation: 5534
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Good point but here is the flaw. At the time in the 50s when I was growing up I may not have as much information as today. However, as peers of my generation around me tell me their stories coincided with what a lived so it was not just in my area. The difference? That what I lived I was told by my peers 50+ years later. Today? We see the overall picture sooner. Take care.

As i said before, most people remember their youth with rose colored glasses. My uncles and aunts grew up in the 50s and tell a more realistic tale about city life that is reported, life was just as bad and nasty then as it is today. It's hard to believe that a brief period in time was suddenly devoid of criminal activity across a broad spectrum of society, and the rose all at the same time.
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