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Old 01-21-2012, 08:24 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 34,981,619 times
Reputation: 42370

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Ivory, I asked you earlier if she actually uses the words, "Moms who work have no maternal instinct" or something along those lines. In my opinion, saying, "Staying home with these kids is tough" is different. Can you give us examples of actual statements she makes? So far, you have only used vague phrases like "self-edifying BS" and "breaking her arm patting herself on the back."

What does she actually say?

 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:26 AM
 
Location: You know... That place
1,899 posts, read 2,351,088 times
Reputation: 2051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Have you been reading my posts? She doesn't talk about what she's been doing as a SAHM. She talks about how great she is because she's a SAHM and how mothers should SAH. If she wanted to talk about volunteering at her children's school or the project she just finished at home, I wouldn't be posting this. She doesn't talk about what she does. She breaks her arm patting herself on the back. We're all aware she thinks she's the greatest thing since sliced bread and anyone who didn't choose to SAH is a bad mom. I'm just tired of hearing it.
Yes. I have been reading your posts. I just haven't been able to figure out from your posts what it is that she is saying or doing that makes you so mad.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by num1baby View Post
Yes. I have been reading your posts. I just haven't been able to figure out from your posts what it is that she is saying or doing that makes you so mad.
Not mad. Just tired of dealing with it. When one person ruins the party, you kind of don't want them around. When we do get together, you can count on her, at some point, going on about how women should SAH and how great she is because she does SAH. We're all, painfully, aware of how great she thinks she is. I just wish she'd save it for when she gets together with her like minded friends and left us out of it.

The things she's said that make me mad weren't even said to me. They were said to my daughters. I just laugh at what she says because it's such BS. Unfortunately, it's BS that kills the party. People start making excuses to leave when she starts up.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
Ivory, I asked you earlier if she actually uses the words, "Moms who work have no maternal instinct" or something along those lines. In my opinion, saying, "Staying home with these kids is tough" is different. Can you give us examples of actual statements she makes? So far, you have only used vague phrases like "self-edifying BS" and "breaking her arm patting herself on the back."

What does she actually say?
Yes. She's said things like "Mothers who put their babies into day care don't have the maternal instinct of a house cat." (repeated by my dd so I'm not sure of her exact words but she did refer to house cats) She's told my daughters that they "Raised themselves because I was a working mom." She also tells them that once you're a mom you should stay home. And this is a woman who blows smoke in her kids faces from the time they are born (before given she smokes through pregnancies).... I find it amazing that she can choose to think she's so great when it's common knowledge that second hand smoke hurts kids. (Her smoking around her kids does bother me. The younger ones live with her smoke 24 x 7 in the winter time when they're indoors most of the time. The older three go to school so, at least, they get out of the house.)

When we get together, she goes on about how great SAHM's are, how great she is because she SAH, and how she can't understand how women can leave their babies. She hasn't compared me to a house cat to my face but she has told me I didn't raise my kids because I was never home. That was said when she was angry with me because I didn't do something or other she thought I should. I've talked before about the fact she expects people to do things for her. We're supposed to recognize how hard her life is and help her out. Unfortunately, I have a full time job and two kids of my own so that is not happening any time soon.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-21-2012 at 08:46 AM..
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Asheville NC
1,388 posts, read 1,162,859 times
Reputation: 3208
Default Really is this so terrible??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
LOL, it's not arrogance when you can prove your point. Arrogance is when you insist you're right when you're not. It's confidence when you know you can prove your point. I have debated this issue and defended WM's because I was in a debate and it was appropriate to do so. THAT is not to be taken as a reflection of how I deal with people IRL. Even though I can show, with research, that SAH/WOH does not matter beyond the financial aspects, that is not something I'd discuss during a family gathering. That would not be appropriate.

My point is that there is no reason for me to attend gatherings where I'm going to be expected to sit in silence while someone breaks her arm patting herself on the back while putting down my choices. I don't have to be insecure in my choices to not want to deal with that. I don't know why people keep saying that being put down should not bother me if I'm confident. Being confident in your choices does not mean you're comfortable sitting there while someone keeps putting them down. This kind of drama does not belong at family functions.

I don't give a rats arse what she says with her friends. I think about as much of them as I do her (she hangs out with a group of moms who are all of this mindset but that is irrelevant other than to point out that I don't care what they say when I'm not there.) and their opinions don't matter but I really don't want to hear it. We're all, perfectly, aware that she thinks she's great. Why do we need to hear it again?

When I get together with family, I just want to enjoy myself and catch up. We can't do that with her around. The second someone starts talking about what is going on in their job, you can count on her to start self edifying. We're all aware that she thinks she's so much better than the rest of us. We've heard it all before. I just don't want to hear it anymore.
No Ivory--you can come across as arrogant even when you are right. You are perceived as arrogant by many on this forum, truthfully including me. Nothing in the dictionary says that right precludes arrogance.

Large family functions are rife with drama. It is really a dull family that has none.

When everyone sits around and talks about their respective jobs, your DIL pipes up and defends her job as SAHM.She may be irritating and a jerk, but she is family. I'm sure you don't have to sit there in silence and agree with everything. There are no rules. Don't sit in silence, change the subject, you do not have to agree. Others are WM's. I'm sure they have a bit to say about it. You are letting her get to you.

You do not think very highly of your DIL. That is clear. Have her at the functions but ignore her. It really isn't that hard. The wife of my sister-in-law's nephew, is a prig. We smile and say hi, then run to to next group-and we are obvious. No need to acknowledge them more than to say hi or good bye.

I does seem to me that you as an older, secure, happy, working, educated mother, would cut her some slack, and turn a deaf ear. I don't understand why it bothers you so very much, unless you are unsure of your own choices. --You have denied this over and over, but it seems you do protest too much. You also have other family members that you put down because of their choice to stay at home with their children. You avoided your sister, because it bothered you so very much.

It seems to me that you are the one with the problem.

I am really happy for her that her husband can afford to care for a family that large and have her stay at home with her children. That is my opinion.

Don't let you irritation with her keep your husband from his son and grandchildren. This will be, and probably has been an irritant between you and your husband already.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:43 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,231,004 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Not mad. Just tired of dealing with it. When one person ruins the party, you kind of don't want them around. When we do get together, you can count on her, at some point, going on about how women should SAH and how great she is because she does SAH.
Have you considered saying to her in a calm and measured tone that since you chose not to stay at home that you feel it rather rude for her to go on and on and that perhaps we could come up with a different topic to discuss?
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: You know... That place
1,899 posts, read 2,351,088 times
Reputation: 2051
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
Ivory, I asked you earlier if she actually uses the words, "Moms who work have no maternal instinct" or something along those lines. In my opinion, saying, "Staying home with these kids is tough" is different. Can you give us examples of actual statements she makes? So far, you have only used vague phrases like "self-edifying BS" and "breaking her arm patting herself on the back."

What does she actually say?
Even one phrase can be taken many different ways by different people. Someone saying "I can't imagine having a job outside of the home" could be taken differently to different people. Here are some examples of how it could be taken:
1. I am lazy and don't want to work.
2. My kids are more important to me than a career.
3. Mothers who work outside of the home don't love their kids.
4. There is no point in having kids if you are going to have a day care raise them.
5. I like being my own boss and couldn't handle working for someone else.
6. Working inside my home just fits my personality.
7. Working in the home fulfills me much more than working for a paycheck would.

There are so many other ways that can be taken and that is just 1 phrase. Even all of the things listed above can be taken in different ways. Some people naturally hear the worst possible thing, others hear the best. I think most people hear it somewhere in the middle.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,792,833 times
Reputation: 14677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yes. She's said things like "Mothers who put their babies into day care don't have the maternal instinct of a house cat."
That's rude and offensive, I agree, but it's her opinion. What do your daughters say about that statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
She's told my daughters that they "Raised themselves because I was a working mom."
You yourself have admitted that is somewhat true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
She also tells them that once you're a mom you should stay home.
What do your daughters think of that statement? Sounds like they are smart girls who probably have their own opinion on that. Why does her opinion on this issue bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
And this is a woman who blows smoke in her kids faces from the time they are born (before given she smokes through pregnancies).... I find it amazing that she can choose to think she's so great when it's common knowledge that second hand smoke hurts kids. (Her smoking around her kids does bother me. The younger ones live with her smoke 24 x 7 in the winter time when they're indoors most of the time. The older three go to school so, at least, they get out of the house.)
Separate issue.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:47 AM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,725,457 times
Reputation: 11008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
LOL, it's not arrogance when you can prove your point. Arrogance is when you insist you're right when you're not. It's confidence when you know you can prove your point. I have debated this issue and defended WM's because I was in a debate and it was appropriate to do so. THAT is not to be taken as a reflection of how I deal with people IRL. Even though I can show, with research, that SAH/WOH does not matter beyond the financial aspects, that is not something I'd discuss during a family gathering. That would not be appropriate.

My point is that there is no reason for me to attend gatherings where I'm going to be expected to sit in silence while someone breaks her arm patting herself on the back while putting down my choices. I don't have to be insecure in my choices to not want to deal with that. I don't know why people keep saying that being put down should not bother me if I'm confident. Being confident in your choices does not mean you're comfortable sitting there while someone keeps putting them down. This kind of drama does not belong at family functions.

I don't give a rats arse what she says with her friends. I think about as much of them as I do her (she hangs out with a group of moms who are all of this mindset but that is irrelevent other than to point out that I don't care what they say when I'm not there.) and their opinions don't matter but I really don't want to hear it. We're all, perfectly, aware that she thinks she's great. Why do we need to hear it again?

When I get together with family, I just want to enjoy myself and catch up. We can't do that with her around. The second someone starts talking about what is going on in their job, you can count on her to start self edifying. We're all aware that she thinks she's so much better than the rest of us. We've heard it all before. I just don't want to hear it anymore.
Fine, the DON'T. But fail to see what on earth this has to do with SAHM's or even parenting in general. It sounds like she has a narcissistic personality, and the SAHM aspect is only an aspect because that's what she happens to do.

From the sounds of it, if she was say, an ENGINEER for a living you would all be subject to her self edification regarding that.

This is a personality issue and not a SAHM v WM issue. The SAHM part is virtually irrelevant. Your DIL would be self edifying NO MATTER WHAT SHE DID.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by funisart View Post
No Ivory--you can come across as arrogant even when you are right. You are perceived as arrogant by many on this forum, truthfully including me. Nothing in the dictionary says that right precludes arrogance.

Large family functions are rife with drama. It is really a dull family that has none.

When everyone sits around and talks about their respective jobs, your DIL pipes up and defends her job as SAHM.She may be irritating and a jerk, but she is family. I'm sure you don't have to sit there in silence and agree with everything. There are no rules. Don't sit in silence, change the subject, you do not have to agree. Others are WM's. I'm sure they have a bit to say about it. You are letting her get to you.

You do not think very highly of your DIL. That is clear. Have her at the functions but ignore her. It really isn't that hard. The wife of my sister-in-law's nephew, is a prig. We smile and say hi, then run to to next group-and we are obvious. No need to acknowledge them more than to say hi or good bye.

I does seem to me that you as an older, secure, happy, working, educated mother, would cut her some slack, and turn a deaf ear. I don't understand why it bothers you so very much, unless you are unsure of your own choices. --You have denied this over and over, but it seems you do protest too much. You also have other family members that you put down because of their choice to stay at home with their children. You avoided your sister, because it bothered you so very much.

It seems to me that you are the one with the problem.

I am really happy for her that her husband can afford to care for a family that large and have her stay at home with her children. That is my opinion.

Don't let you irritation with her keep your husband from his son and grandchildren. This will be, and probably has been an irritant between you and your husband already.
Operative words "On this forum". This is a discussion board. It's not real life. Quit assuming that what someone would say on a discussion board is what they say IRL. Also, the written word does not lend itself to emotion well. Sometimes what is just a statement can be taken as more than just a statement. People tend to read into posts. Just take mine verbatim, thank you.

My only problem is not wanting to deal with her patting herself on the back. It's a real party killer and just annoying.
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