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Old 01-21-2012, 08:51 AM
 
Location: You know... That place
1,899 posts, read 2,350,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yes. She's said things like "Mothers who put their babies into day care don't have the maternal instinct of a house cat." (repeated by my dd so I'm not sure of her exact words but she did refer to house cats) She's told my daughters that they "Raised themselves because I was a working mom." She also tells them that once you're a mom you should stay home. And this is a woman who blows smoke in her kids faces from the time they are born (before given she smokes through pregnancies).... I find it amazing that she can choose to think she's so great when it's common knowledge that second hand smoke hurts kids. (Her smoking around her kids does bother me. The younger ones live with her smoke 24 x 7 in the winter time when they're indoors most of the time. The older three go to school so, at least, they get out of the house.)

When we get together, she goes on about how great SAHM's are, how great she is because she SAH, and how she can't understand how women can leave their babies. She hasn't compared me to a house cat to my face but she has told me I didn't raise my kids because I was never home. That was said when she was angry with me because I didn't do something or other she thought I should. I've talked before about the fact she expects people to do things for her. We're supposed to recognize how hard her life is and help her out. Unfortunately, I have a full time job and two kids of my own so that is not happening any time soon.
This is kind of like me saying that because I don't like some of the things my older sister says and I have met a few other women who happened to be older sisters who spoke the same way, all older sisters are selfish, egotistical brats.

 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Fine, the DON'T. But fail to see what on earth this has to do with SAHM's or even parenting in general. It sounds like she has a narcissistic personality, and the SAHM aspect is only an aspect because that's what she happens to do.

From the sounds of it, if she was say, an ENGINEER for a living you would all be subject to her self edification regarding that.

This is a personality issue and not a SAHM v WM issue. The SAHM part is virtually irrelevant. Your DIL would be self edifying NO MATTER WHAT SHE DID.
You may be right but she's not the first self edifying SAHM I've met. There does seem to be a significant number of SAHM's of this mindset. That's why I asked why they're this way. If she were an anomaly, I'd think it was a personality flaw. Still could be but understanding other mothers who break their arms patting themselves on the back for being SAHM's might help understand her.

I have a bad feeling that even if I did understand it wouldn't help anything. It's hard to deal with people who think so much of themselves.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Asheville NC
1,388 posts, read 1,162,277 times
Reputation: 3203
Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Operative words "On this forum". This is a discussion board. It's not real life. Quit assuming that what someone would say on a discussion board is what they say IRL. Also, the written word does not lend itself to emotion well. Sometimes what is just a statement can be taken as more than just a statement. People tend to read into posts. Just take mine verbatim, thank you.

My only problem is not wanting to deal with her patting herself on the back. It's a real party killer and just annoying.
Then don't-- I don't see a problem.. You are allowing her to bother you.

I see this thread as just another platform for you to put down the choice of SAHM's.

But that is just my perception.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:54 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 34,973,454 times
Reputation: 42369
I remember your saying that you see your younger daughter 15 minutes a day if you're lucky.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/22180098-post74.html

Does it just sting coming from your daughter-in-law? I can see being angry at the "house cat" comment (what a dumb thing to say), but why would it matter if she says your kids raised themselves? You not only seem to agree with her, but you also seem to believe it doesn't matter if you did because kids turn out how they're going to turn out regardless.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by num1baby View Post
This is kind of like me saying that because I don't like some of the things my older sister says and I have met a few other women who happened to be older sisters who spoke the same way, all older sisters are selfish, egotistical brats.
No. That's not what I said. I've been very clear that I only see this attitude in abotu 10% of the SAHM's I've met. I'd speculate that for every one that will say something, there are a couple who keep their mouths shut as that is just the way these things work with people. Only some will speak up, others will, silently, agree but not speak up.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I remember your saying that you see your younger daughter 15 minutes a day if you're lucky.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/22180098-post74.html

Does it just sting coming from your daughter-in-law? I can see being angry at the "house cat" comment (what a dumb thing to say), but why would it matter if she says your kids raised themselves? You not only seem to agree with her, but you also seem to believe it doesn't matter if you did because kids turn out how they're going to turn out regardless.
Yes, she's in cheer leading, volley ball, on the swim team, and off with her friends. She's a busy girl. I would see her half an hour a day if I didn't work. I have to admit to feeling like dd#2 is raising herself but she's doing a great job so I'm going to leave well enough alone. She's a great kid

No sting from ddil. She's not someone whose opinion matters to me. I just don't want to hear it. If my brother or my dad said something like this, it would really bother me. Not because I'm not confident in my choices but because I would hate for either of them to think ill of me. I value their opinions. I get mad when she says things to my daughters. She has no right to do that. Her response to my breaking contact between her and my daugthers was priceless. She sent me a nasty letter in which she pointed out that she is better equipped to parent my teen daughters than I am and someday I'll figure that out but it will be too late. She has, openly, declared that she is dd#1's only hope. (This was said in response to my asking her to limit her comments to dd#1 to encouraging her to talk to her therapist because her "help" was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Dd#1 is doing much better since we cut off contact between her and ddil.)

I'm glad you brought this up. I had forgotten all that crap. That's more reason to not have contact with her.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-21-2012 at 09:04 AM..
 
Old 01-21-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Asheville NC
1,388 posts, read 1,162,277 times
Reputation: 3203
Default ;;;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yes, she's in cheer leading, volley ball, on the swim team, and off with her friends. She's a busy girl.

No sting from ddil. She's not someone whose opinion matters to me. I just don't want to hear it. I get mad when she says things to my daughters. She has no right to do that. Her response to my breaking contact between her and my daughters was priceless. She sent me a nasty letter in which she pointed out that she is better equipped to parent our teen daughters than we are and someday we'll figure that out but it will be too late.
Oh too bad you can't spend more time with your daughter-- maybe watching a few practices, or at least driving her to practices. Just 15 minutes a day and she is really raising herself.

You did the right thing separating your dds from your dil. But you might want to spend a little more time with your daughters than 15 minutes a day. They will be gone and onto their own lives sooner than you think.

If your DIL's opinion doesn't matter to you --then forgetaboutit. Your daughters are old enough, and know you well enough not to let your DIL's pratter influence them. Especially if you spend more time with them yourself.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 09:08 AM
 
Location: You know... That place
1,899 posts, read 2,350,568 times
Reputation: 2051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No. That's not what I said. I've been very clear that I only see this attitude in abotu 10% of the SAHM's I've met. I'd speculate that for every one that will say something, there are a couple who keep their mouths shut as that is just the way these things work with people. Only some will speak up, others will, silently, agree but not speak up.
That's it. I give up. You win. Obviously you came on here with a completely closed mind once again and nothing we say can possibly open your mind up enough to listen to other people's opinions. You never even attempt to see another POV, or even admit that someone else may have made a good point. I am done trying.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Asheville NC
1,388 posts, read 1,162,277 times
Reputation: 3203
Default this

Quote:
Originally Posted by num1baby View Post
That's it. I give up. You win. Obviously you came on here with a completely closed mind once again and nothing we say can possibly open your mind up enough to listen to other people's opinions. You never even attempt to see another POV, or even admit that someone else may have made a good point. I am done trying.
this
 
Old 01-21-2012, 09:11 AM
 
Location: here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
UGH!!! Read this slowly..... I ... am... dealing...with...this....kind...of...SAHM...in.... my....life... I am not equating SAHM with this way of thinking though, my experience is that about 10% of SAHM's seem to express the same sentiment. I would assume more think this way but just won't say it. That's usually how things work. For every one person who expresses a controversial opinion, there are two or three who won't so this is not an uncommon thing by any means. I would hope the majority of SAHM's don't think this way. There's nothing about SAH that makes you better than a WM. Yet, I deal with this attitude in my family and have for years.

I have a sister who I just didn't speak to for years because I got tired of the "Mom's who LOVE their children SAH with them" mantra. Now that her kids are grown, she just doesn't talk about the issue so we've gotten past it. I have a SIL who was one who thought that way but kept her mouth shut. She confessed a few years back to thinking this way all the time she was raising her kids but now realizing that SAH/WOH really don't matter. She now wishes she had seen that before and worked because they are struggling financially because of her decision to SAH and neither she or my brother will ever be able to retire. Now I have ddil who is breaking her own arm patting herself on the back for being a SAHM. Seriously, who wants to be around someone who is so full of themselves? I really don't get being this arrogant.

This has nothing to do with not being comfortable with my own decision. Like the majority of WM's, I have always improved my family's lives by working so the decision to work was a no brainer even though it was difficult. When it comes to your kids, you do what you need to even if it is the hard thing to do. What this has to do with is just not wanting to deal with the put downs. I don't see any point in spending time with someone who is looking to get that next jab in every second. I cringe when anyone brings up work when ddil is around because the topic will soon turn to how SAHM is a job, how hard they work and it's the only job mothers should have. She's gone as far as to tell my girls that they raised themselves because I worked. How do you get so full of yourself? I really don't get it.

After reading the posts here, I'm convinced that my take is spot on. It's just arrogance and justification. I'm dealing with someone who just thinks she's superior to everyone else because she's lucky enough to not need to work. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact she's never accomplished anything in her life other than having babies. She's uneducated and never held a job for any length of them (funny by my MSAHM sister also was uneducated and never held a job for any length of time). It's not like she could do anything but SAH. I just don't get the arrogance and I'm guessing I never will. She's just not a person I'd want to know if she weren't family. I've met other women like her IRL and I just laugh and walk away. They're not worth a second thought. This one's like a boom-a-rang. Just when I think she's out of my life, she's back. They once talked about moving to another state. I wish they would. Then we could just have a long distance relationship. That might work.

Thanks for your responses. Unfortunately, all they do is confirm that this is just arrogance and justification and stupid. I need to quit trying to apply reason here because there is no reasoning here.
You ARE that arrogant! the difference is, you think you are justified in your arrogance. You aren't. You have the same exact attitude on the other side of the issue. You go on and on about your engineering degree, blah, blah blah. In every thread in which you post you brag about your accomplishments outside the home. You are no different and no better than she is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
It seems to me that the basis of this issue is that you and your DIL simply have a differing opinion, on a particular philosophy. She probably thinks the exact same thing as you, about you, because quite frankly (and I'm just trying to point out an observation, not insult you) - you come off exactly the same way. You also come off as arrogant, whether you are in reality or not or whether you mean to or not. So no wonder you're at an impasse.

People have all sorts of philosophical differences with their relatives, and they manage to overcome them and stay civil, because they agree to disagree and don't take their differences personally.

And, so what if she thinks she's great? You can't tell someone how they should feel about themselves. If she's putting others down in the process, then just choose not to be offended. She can't make you offended if you're secure in your own position. Just don't pay attention to it, or make an arrangement where you guys just don't discuss it.

Basically, it should only bother you if you let it bother you. Why are you letting it bother you so much?

(I'm only addressing the "arrogant SAHM" issue. If there are other issues, then that's another thread.)
^this

Quote:
Originally Posted by num1baby View Post
So when the family gets together, at some point people start talking about their jobs. Is she supposed to sit there silently while everyone else talks? Or is she allowed to talk about her job? Being a SAHM is her job. With 5 kids it is a pretty hard job. Why wouldn't she talk about what she does at work? Or is she supposed to sit there quietly while everyone with real jobs gets to talk about their accomplishments or frustrations on the job?
and ^this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Have you been reading my posts? She doesn't talk about what she's been doing as a SAHM. She talks about how great she is because she's a SAHM and how she's doing what all mothers should do. If she wanted to talk about volunteering at her children's school or the project she just finished at home, I wouldn't be posting this. She doesn't talk about what she does. She breaks her arm congratulating herself for being a SAHM. We're all aware she thinks she's the greatest thing since sliced bread and anyone who didn't choose to SAH is a bad mom. I'm just tired of hearing it.

Would you want to sit and listen to me tell you how being an teacher is what everyone should do, that you're too stupid to realize how it's the only choice if you chose otherwise and how great I am because I am one??? How fast do you think that would end a family party? She doesn't talk about what she does. She congratulates herself for being better than everyone who didn't choose what she chose. She's arrogant.
Yes, and STILL waiting for specific examples!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yes. She's said things like "Mothers who put their babies into day care don't have the maternal instinct of a house cat." (repeated by my dd so I'm not sure of her exact words but she did refer to house cats) She's told my daughters that they "Raised themselves because I was a working mom." She also tells them that once you're a mom you should stay home. And this is a woman who blows smoke in her kids faces from the time they are born (before given she smokes through pregnancies).... I find it amazing that she can choose to think she's so great when it's common knowledge that second hand smoke hurts kids. (Her smoking around her kids does bother me. The younger ones live with her smoke 24 x 7 in the winter time when they're indoors most of the time. The older three go to school so, at least, they get out of the house.)

When we get together, she goes on about how great SAHM's are, how great she is because she SAH, and how she can't understand how women can leave their babies. She hasn't compared me to a house cat to my face but she has told me I didn't raise my kids because I was never home. That was said when she was angry with me because I didn't do something or other she thought I should. I've talked before about the fact she expects people to do things for her. We're supposed to recognize how hard her life is and help her out. Unfortunately, I have a full time job and two kids of my own so that is not happening any time soon.
I suspect that, if what you say is true, and she doesn't have an education, and really doesn't have a choice but to stay home, she probably is a little insecure and may be trying to compensate for her lack of choice by making sure everyone knows that it is what she wants. It is eerily similar to what you do here, repeating over and over again how great what you are doing is, and how your family is better off for it. What's the difference? Why are you making this your problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
My only problem is not wanting to deal with her patting herself on the back. It's a real party killer and just annoying.
Then go to a different room or change the subject. Why does it have to be such a big deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by funisart View Post
Then don't-- I don't see a problem.. You are allowing her to bother you.

I see this thread as just another platform for you to put down the choice of SAHM's.

But that is just my perception.
I agree!
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