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Old 01-21-2012, 04:28 PM
 
11,615 posts, read 19,735,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Nope. I have defended WM's.
There is nothing to defend. The decision to SAH or to work is not a decision that need defense.

 
Old 01-21-2012, 04:38 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,191,044 times
Reputation: 19651
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
40 hours of WORK time, add an hour each day (or more depending on where you live) to get to and from daycare/work. So you start work at say 8:00 AM, you are up and out of the house by 7:00, drive to daycare, drop child off, go to work. You get off work at 5:00, drive to daycare, pick child up, drive home, get home around 6:00. Then make dinner, clean up after and it's 7:30. You now have what, an hour, hour and a half to spend with your child, providing you aren't grading papers and doing other work, before bed. Justify it all you want but given the choice, your children would prefer to spend more time with you. Sure, at 15, material possessions are important but if she really thought about it she would rather have you home MORE than not. I'm sorry, I will never understand this lifestyle, ever.
Didn't you say in another thread how your teenagers have sports until 6pm anyway? And then they have hours of homework?

Then what difference would it make if the OP wasn't home with her teenagers until then, and grading papers while they are doing their homework?

A bit hypocritical isn't it to talk about how busy kids are outside of the home in one thread and then demonize someone else for saying since her kids are in so many activities she isn't missing time with them.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 04:49 PM
 
11,615 posts, read 19,735,299 times
Reputation: 12051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The problem with that is she hasn't done anything worthy of being patted on the back.
So what? She is your son's wife and the mother of your grandchildren. If she needs a pat on the back, for any reason why can't you just do it for her even if she doesn't "deserve" it?
 
Old 01-21-2012, 04:50 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,191,044 times
Reputation: 19651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
So what? She is your son's wife and the mother of your grandchildren. If she needs a pat on the back, for any reason why can't you just do it for her even if she doesn't "deserve" it?
I think this is the real crux of the issue and proves that this is a family issue and not symbolic of a WM vs SAHM thing at all.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,731,184 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
40 hours of WORK time, add an hour each day (or more depending on where you live) to get to and from daycare/work. So you start work at say 8:00 AM, you are up and out of the house by 7:00, drive to daycare, drop child off, go to work. You get off work at 5:00, drive to daycare, pick child up, drive home, get home around 6:00. Then make dinner, clean up after and it's 7:30. You now have what, an hour, hour and a half to spend with your child, providing you aren't grading papers and doing other work, before bed. Justify it all you want but given the choice, your children would prefer to spend more time with you. Sure, at 15, material possessions are important but if she really thought about it she would rather have you home MORE than not. I'm sorry, I will never understand this lifestyle, ever.
NEWSFLASH!!!! Kids have TWO PARENTS!!!! You've only accounted for one. (I know, it loses it's impact if you consider that children have fathers who, gasp, can provide child care and do things like cook and clean.) Divide and conquer is the rule.

As to time, 28% of all days fall on the weekend and another 8% or so are holidays and vacation days for most people. Most working couples do not work the exact same hours. Often the one who starts later does day care drop off and the other day care pick up. So, yes, 40 hours of separation between parentS and children is about right during normal work weeks. Approximately 15 of those hours are spent napping so we're talking 25 hours per week.

Most people have 2 weeks vacation (both parents BTW), sick days, personal days and holidays off. The end result is, children can end up home with one or both parents more than 40% of all days with both parents working full time. If one parent starts later than the other (this was our case, I started at 7:00 and dh at 9:00), day care can easily be 8 hours a day or less...three of which are spent with children sleeping which means my kids spent 5 hours in day care on 60% of all days during the year. The other 40% of days they spent home. Now, if I were home, how many of the hours my kids were awake would have been spent with them playing by themselves while I did whatever? (Under the same roof does not mean interacting). I'd wager at least half. Now consider that evenings ane weekends are more child centered in WM households than SAH households and the WM is making up some of that lost time so cut it in half again. We're down to 1.25 hours per day on work days but not all days are work days. Using 60% of days as work days, we're talking an average of about 45 minutes a day.... Certainly not enough to deny my kids or myself the benefits of my working.

I posted a time study before (sorry my hard drive died and I'm waiting to find out if I'll recover the data so I don't have the link right now) where they looked at parenting time...defined as the time actually spent parenting, between SAHM and WM households (yes, unlike you they counted dad as a parent and counted his contribution) and found that it works out to 23 minutes per day averaged over 18 years. If you do the math, it comes out to about 43 minutes per day...remarkably close to my 45 minutes above. It would appear that we are, pathetically, average.

Again, why the insistance on making this ALL or NOTHING when it's no where near that? There is plenty of time to do all kinds of things.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,672,926 times
Reputation: 19409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
There is nothing to defend. The decision to SAH or to work is not a decision that need defense.
I agree that the decision shouldn't need a defense. Of course, IMHO, this does not apply if you're having babies and living off of nothing but state support.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,731,184 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I think this is the real crux of the issue and proves that this is a family issue and not symbolic of a WM vs SAHM thing at all.
Wrong. Because doing so would require stating that my working was bad for my kids and I won't do that because it wasn't. The whole crux of her argument is that SAH is better. It's not.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,731,184 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
I agree that the decision shouldn't need a defense. Of course, IMHO, this does not apply if you're having babies and living off of nothing but state support.
I agree. As long as you're paying the bill yourself, and not asking your kids to do without, it's your choice. I don't care what someone chooses. I just don't want to hear them spouting about how great they are because they chose it and how awful other parents are who didn't make the same choice. Everyone has the right to choose what they want if there is a choice (many WM's don't have a choice. They are the ones who deserve a pat on the back for doing what is best for their kids. It's always more diffciult when life doesn't give you a choice.). I just don't get the variety of SAHM who thinks that they should be patted on the back for SAH. My experience is they pat themselves on the back enough that no one else should have to. Some people are just so full of themselves.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: here
24,474 posts, read 28,767,996 times
Reputation: 31056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Wrong. Because doing so would require stating that my working was bad for my kids and I won't do that because it wasn't. The whole crux of her argument is that SAH is better. It's not.
then ignore her!!!! Change the subject! Leave the room! Why is that so hard? I thought you didn't even see them very often anyway. If that is still the case, it couldn't possibly come up more than a few times/year anyway.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,228,944 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I think this is the real crux of the issue and proves that this is a family issue and not symbolic of a WM vs SAHM thing at all.
This has my vote, as well. People in families find a way to get along or at least tolerate each other, even when they have huge philosophical differences. Happens every day. IMO, one has to ask oneself "is it more important to be right or more important to do what is effective?"
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