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Old 01-22-2012, 07:19 PM
 
9,057 posts, read 6,745,385 times
Reputation: 11013

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No, I don't think SAH is superior to WOH. Wrong argument there. My issue is that one particular group of parents thinks they deserve recognition for being parents while thinking other parents deserve to be put down for not doing it their way. It's that they consider themselves superior parents. I don't get thinking one style of parenting is special land deserving of kudos over another when we all manage to raise great kids and the things parents do don't change with working status.
I frequent another forum that pertains to my line of work. There are people there who are very passionate about what they do. They have the exact same arguments, except it's over whether analogue technology for making records is better than digital technology for making records.

There are people there who raise everyone's ire because they are old school and believe with all their hearts that their way of making records is the right way, and that therefore everyone else who uses the new way of making records are inferior to them. They believe their way is the only right way.

The funny thing is, all the records turn out pretty well in the end, and the music lover generally can't tell what media the music was recorded on.

The moral of my story is - that there are always going to be people who think their way is superior. Even if the end result is the same. Some people are obsessed over the means rather than the end.

It's just the way people are. And you can either entertain their arguments, or not. If you choose to participate, then participate. But you aren't going to change their minds or even find out why they think the way they do.

Because - people are entitled to their opinions. And at the end of the day, it's just an opinion.

 
Old 01-22-2012, 07:53 PM
 
Location: here
24,479 posts, read 28,822,810 times
Reputation: 31062
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
You have been given several reasons why someone would act like that. Nobody, not even you, knows why your daughter-in-law is the way she is. I don't understand why this discussion keeps going or what you're hoping to accomplish. It just dissolves into flaming and fighting, as your previous two threads have shown. None of us can read her mind or anyone else's, so we can't really say why, Obviously nobody is going to speak up and say, "Hey, I'm also a rude and toxic person with a superiority complex, and I totally understand where your daughter-in-law is coming from."

If she's a nut, then she's a nut.
Yes, this.
 
Old 01-23-2012, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,779,913 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
You have been given several reasons why someone would act like that. Nobody, not even you, knows why your daughter-in-law is the way she is. I don't understand why this discussion keeps going or what you're hoping to accomplish. It just dissolves into flaming and fighting, as your previous two threads have shown. None of us can read her mind or anyone else's, so we can't really say why, Obviously nobody is going to speak up and say, "Hey, I'm also a rude and toxic person with a superiority complex, and I totally understand where your daughter-in-law is coming from."

If she's a nut, then she's a nut.
Sometimes, understanding why someone is the way they are helps.

I know that women like ddil are here on this board. I've read their posts before. I was hoping they would shed some light on why they think the way they do. At least then I'd have something to tell my daughters instead of ddil is nuts...which my oldest will repeat to ddil ...then we get more drama. Having to explain this to my kids is the problem. I don't want to say ddil is a nut to them.

I guess I need to remember that I have errands to run before I go home when she starts and just excuse myself and keep my kids away from her...
 
Old 01-23-2012, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,779,913 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
I frequent another forum that pertains to my line of work. There are people there who are very passionate about what they do. They have the exact same arguments, except it's over whether analogue technology for making records is better than digital technology for making records.

There are people there who raise everyone's ire because they are old school and believe with all their hearts that their way of making records is the right way, and that therefore everyone else who uses the new way of making records are inferior to them. They believe their way is the only right way.

The funny thing is, all the records turn out pretty well in the end, and the music lover generally can't tell what media the music was recorded on.

The moral of my story is - that there are always going to be people who think their way is superior. Even if the end result is the same. Some people are obsessed over the means rather than the end.

It's just the way people are. And you can either entertain their arguments, or not. If you choose to participate, then participate. But you aren't going to change their minds or even find out why they think the way they do.

Because - people are entitled to their opinions. And at the end of the day, it's just an opinion.
That's really interesting. I've never encountered a professional debate where others actually put others down because they don't do things their way. I've heard plenty of logical arguments for why one way is better but there's always reason to make the argument besides "I said so" and one side wins in the end. Thanks for sharing that. I'm a logical thinker and just don't get why people would claim anything is better without some kind of proof. If you tell me something is better, my first response is to ask you how the end results will be better because if they're not better, then it's not better.

At least in your scenario, someone could claim they think something sounds better. Since perception of sound varies from person to person, there's actually reason to think that one way may be better than another. This is analgous to comparing recipes and two people disagreeing on which tastes better. The WOH put downs actually claim that we hurt our kids with, absolutely, no proof that our kids are hurt. How our kids turn out isn't subjective like sound or taste. They either turn out different or they don't and they don't. At least not in the ways researchers measure and no one has shown me any way they are different in the end.

Unforunately, this "just an opinion" has to be explained to my kids who are being told their mother did something to harm them. THAT I have to explain. I'm trying to find a logical reason for something that is not logical.
 
Old 01-23-2012, 06:45 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 35,071,469 times
Reputation: 42372
There is nothing you can tell your daughters that, if repeated to your daughter-in-law, that she will accept or agree with. She will either disagree and repeat herself, or take offense. There is no point to try to win this with her.

Your daughters' opinion of you is important. Hers is not. And if your daughters ask you, "Mom, why does she say those things?" you can tell them that some people have really strong opinions about things and aren't very tactful or pleasant about it. Then reiterate that their opinions are important to you, not hers. It's a good opening to talk about stuff.

Last edited by JustJulia; 01-23-2012 at 07:01 AM..
 
Old 01-23-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,232,586 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
There is nothing you can tell your daughters that, if repeated to your daughter-in-law, that she will accept or agree with. She will either disagree and repeat herself, or take offense. There is no point to try to win this with her.

Your daughters' opinion of you is important. Hers is not. And if your daughters ask you, "Mom, why does she say those things?" you can tell them that some people have really strong opinions about things and aren't very tactful or pleasant about it. Then reiterate that their opinions are important to you, not hers. It's a good opening to talk about stuff.
The second paragraph is a great suggestion on how to use DIL's opinions as a jumping off point for communicating Ivory's feelings and figuring out how her DDs perceive DIL's opinions. I'm also wondering, Ivory, how you've taught your DDs to navigate other tricky relationships issues. I understand that having them told you obviously never loved them makes this a lot more frustrating and hurtful to you than the average controversy, but the general principles of dealing with a difficult, opinionated family member can apply here. I'd truthfully tell DDs that you don't understand why she thinks what she does so strongly and the strength of her conviction doesn't mean she's accurate. Usually the people screaming the loudest about things are not the ones who have the right of a situation. So rather than arguing why DIL is wrong, maybe use it as an opportunity to teach DDs about relationships and how to find a middle ground (even if one party won't meet you there).
 
Old 01-23-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,690,311 times
Reputation: 19413
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
The second paragraph is a great suggestion on how to use DIL's opinions as a jumping off point for communicating Ivory's feelings and figuring out how her DDs perceive DIL's opinions. I'm also wondering, Ivory, how you've taught your DDs to navigate other tricky relationships issues. I understand that having them told you obviously never loved them makes this a lot more frustrating and hurtful to you than the average controversy, but the general principles of dealing with a difficult, opinionated family member can apply here. I'd truthfully tell DDs that you don't understand why she thinks what she does so strongly and the strength of her conviction doesn't mean she's accurate. Usually the people screaming the loudest about things are not the ones who have the right of a situation. So rather than arguing why DIL is wrong, maybe use it as an opportunity to teach DDs about relationships and how to find a middle ground (even if one party won't meet you there).
OR....perhaps DIL is "just the way she is", is good enough. Deep down, those kids are probably equally as confused by both mom's rantings. Personally, I've raised my children with this theory,....

"We may never know why some people are the way they are. Perhaps something is going on behind the scenes, or happened to them when they were very young....or to someone they cared deeply about. Traumatic situations can shape people in many different ways. Sometimes, if we show that we care enough, those people open up to us and tell us things about themselves. That helps us to understand why they are the way they are. Some people never do open up and our questions are never answered. You simply be kind to them, but keep yourself our of harms reach with them. Don't allow them to hurt you or make you their victim."

Of course, I've always raised my kids with the knowledge that "there's more than one way to skin a cat", too. Just because the Jones family is lving a certain way, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. Nor does it mean that OUR way is wrong. It's simply different! They are allowed to live the way they want to live and raise their family they way they feel is best...just as we are. There's no wrong or right....only different. We try to instill in OUR children, the ability to accept people the way they are, even if they don't understand them.
 
Old 01-23-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: here
24,479 posts, read 28,822,810 times
Reputation: 31062
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
OR....perhaps DIL is "just the way she is", is good enough. Deep down, those kids are probably equally as confused by both mom's rantings. Personally, I've raised my children with this theory,....

"We may never know why some people are the way they are. Perhaps something is going on behind the scenes, or happened to them when they were very young....or to someone they cared deeply about. Traumatic situations can shape people in many different ways. Sometimes, if we show that we care enough, those people open up to us and tell us things about themselves. That helps us to understand why they are the way they are. Some people never do open up and our questions are never answered. You simply be kind to them, but keep yourself our of harms reach with them. Don't allow them to hurt you or make you their victim."

Of course, I've always raised my kids with the knowledge that "there's more than one way to skin a cat", too. Just because the Jones family is lving a certain way, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. Nor does it mean that OUR way is wrong. It's simply different! They are allowed to live the way they want to live and raise their family they way they feel is best...just as we are. There's no wrong or right....only different. We try to instill in OUR children, the ability to accept people the way they are, even if they don't understand them.
Good advice. There are some people we will just never understand, and although we may want to, we don't NEED to. I don't think the OP is giving her daughters enough credit. Simply being told that one way to do things is better than another is probably not enough to sway her daughters in that direction. They will learn much more from their experiences and observations. The OP is making a mountain out of a mole hill. She needs to just let it go.
 
Old 01-23-2012, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,690,311 times
Reputation: 19413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Good advice. There are some people we will just never understand, and although we may want to, we don't NEED to. I don't think the OP is giving her daughters enough credit. Simply being told that one way to do things is better than another is probably not enough to sway her daughters in that direction. They will learn much more from their experiences and observations. The OP is making a mountain out of a mole hill. She needs to just let it go.
Absolutely! I grew up with a working mother. The families who lived on both sides of us, were SAHMs. Much like Ivory....it drove her CRAZY! Those women never, to my knowledge, judged my mother. In fact, they admired her....that she could go to work all day and yet accomplish the things she did when she was at home. They could never imagine living her life, but they still admired her.

My mother was the complete opposite. She put those women down because they stayed home and "did nothing" (not true) all day, when they could have been out working and making money. As a teenager, I never could understand why she was so bothered by those people. They were WONDERFUL who were fantastic moms and wives. Rather than making me gain respect for her and losing respect for them, her rantings caused the opposite reaction in me. I lost respect for my mother, because she was always putting those nice people down.

Something that I found funny about my mom.... she was irritated because one of my sisters told her, "Mom, why don't you just retire and stay HOME!?" My mom said, "If I'm going to work all day, damn it, I'm going to make money! Besides....I work a hell of lot harder at home than I do at work!" Okay..see the irony here? My mother, who all those years, said that they neighbor moms/wives, sat around and did nothing...defended her reason for still working, by saying that she worked HARDER when she stayed home, than when she worked outside the home! Yeah, I know I'm rambling, but I think it's funny!

EDIT: Okay...thinking back on this, I suppose the neighbors DID judge my mom/parents a bit. You see, those moms picked up their kids from after school activities. Those kids had a whole lot of free time on their hands. They were kids. I was not allowed to do after school sports, because that would have meant someone else would have had to transport me. It would have meant that I would be too tired to do all of the farm and house chores required of me. So, in retrospect, I suppose they DID judge them a bit. They never thought it was right that I had to work so hard....since I was just a child.

Last edited by beachmel; 01-23-2012 at 11:25 AM..
 
Old 01-23-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: here
24,479 posts, read 28,822,810 times
Reputation: 31062
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
absolutely! I grew up with a working mother. The families who lived on both sides of us, were sahms. Much like ivory....it drove her crazy! Those women never, to my knowledge, judged my mother. In fact, they admired her....that she could go to work all day and yet accomplish the things she did when she was at home. They could never imagine living her life, but the still admired her.

My mother was the complete opposite. She put those women down because they stayed home and "did nothing" (not true) all day, when they could have been out working and making money. As a teenager, i never could understand why she was so bothered by those people. They were wonderful who were fantastic moms and wives. rather than making me gain respect for her and losing respect for them, her rantings caused the opposite reaction in me. I lost respect for my mother, because she was always putting those nice people down.

something that i found funny about my mom.... She was irritated because one of my sisters told her, "mom, why don't you just retire and stay home!?" my mom said, "if i'm going to work all day, damn it, i'm going to make money! Besides....i work a hell of lot harder at home than i do at work!" okay..see the irony here? My mother, who all those years, said that they neighbor moms/wives, sat around and did nothing...defended her reason for still working, by saying that she worked harder when she stayed home, than when she worked outside the home! Yeah, i know i'm rambling, but i think it's funny!
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