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Old 01-23-2012, 10:31 PM
 
Location: here
24,484 posts, read 28,860,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
There are 2 things that bother me about this thread.

1. The assumption that people have a parent SAH because they think their kids will turn out "better" than if they worked. I like being home because our family runs more smoothly than it does when I am working a lot. It really has nothing to do with thinking my kids will be somehow better than if I worked. It just works better for us for someone to be home. It's less stressful. We have more time to be a family. I am sure my kids would turn out just fine if I had continued to work, but family life is more satisfying when I am home.

2. What does it even mean for kids to turn out "better"? It seems silly to be comparing one undefined standard to another undefined standard. How would we even know if our kids turned out "better"? The whole idea that one group of kids are going to be considered better than others because their mother worked (or not) is ridiculous.

 
Old 01-24-2012, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Central, NJ
2,316 posts, read 4,837,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
My take on this is that Ivory makes the SAHMs around her defensive because despite her protest that she things SAH and WOH are equal, that is not what she projects here. I doubt if she projects equality in real life either.
Or they just poke her for sport. If I was in the right mood I imagine it could be a lot of fun to see how long it took to make her leave the room.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 08:52 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,275,917 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
There are 2 things that bother me about this thread.

1. The assumption that people have a parent SAH because they think their kids will turn out "better" than if they worked. I like being home because our family runs more smoothly than it does when I am working a lot. It really has nothing to do with thinking my kids will be somehow better than if I worked. It just works better for us for someone to be home. It's less stressful. We have more time to be a family. I am sure my kids would turn out just fine if I had continued to work, but family life is more satisfying when I am home.

2. What does it even mean for kids to turn out "better"? It seems silly to be comparing one undefined standard to another undefined standard. How would we even know if our kids turned out "better"? The whole idea that one group of kids are going to be considered better than others because their mother worked (or not) is ridiculous.
I believe that kids can turn out "better" based on whatever goals we have for them based on what we do as parents. The thing is as parents we have many different assets and liabilities within which we work. As a SAHM I had the asset of time. I had the liability of no money. In each case we did what we thought was necessary within those constraints.

The issue is not SAH/ WOH that determines outcomes for your kids. It is what you do with you assets and liabilities. Can you be an AWESOME SAHP? Absolutely. Can you be an AWESOME WOHP? Absolutely. Can you be a stinky parent regardless. Absolutely.

Parenting is a PACKAGE deal. Not a one hit wonder.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 09:03 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 19,788,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I believe that kids can turn out "better" based on whatever goals we have for them based on what we do as parents. The thing is as parents we have many different assets and liabilities within which we work. As a SAHM I had the asset of time. I had the liability of no money. In each case we did what we thought was necessary within those constraints.

The issue is not SAH/ WOH that determines outcomes for your kids. It is what you do with you assets and liabilities. Can you be an AWESOME SAHP? Absolutely. Can you be an AWESOME WOHP? Absolutely. Can you be a stinky parent regardless. Absolutely.

Parenting is a PACKAGE deal. Not a one hit wonder.
But when you talk about a child turning out "better" what exactly do you mean? Better than what? In order to say something is better there has to be something that we are measuring. What are we measuring if we say a child has turned out "better"? It's silly.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 09:15 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,275,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
But when you talk about a child turning out "better" what exactly do you mean? Better than what? In order to say something is better there has to be something that we are measuring. What are we measuring if we say a child has turned out "better"? It's silly.

WE aren't measuring anything. *I* am. As are you, and anyone else. Based on my personal values. Within each family, there are values that we want to instill in our kids. Perhaps strong work ethic. Love of money (ha ha). Character. Integrity. Educational excellence... whatever.


COMPARING better across or between families is dumb. But that does not mean that each family does not strive to do its best to help their kids gain all the advantages of the kind of upbringing we think they ought to have.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Oxford, Connecticut
523 posts, read 837,479 times
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I can't believe that this ridiculous thread is 20 pages long. I do both -I work from home! I guess my kids will turn out better than anyone else's!!
 
Old 01-24-2012, 09:51 AM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,261,648 times
Reputation: 19712
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
WE aren't measuring anything. *I* am. As are you, and anyone else. Based on my personal values. Within each family, there are values that we want to instill in our kids. Perhaps strong work ethic. Love of money (ha ha). Character. Integrity. Educational excellence... whatever.


COMPARING better across or between families is dumb. But that does not mean that each family does not strive to do its best to help their kids gain all the advantages of the kind of upbringing we think they ought to have.
See I disagree here. The purpose of research is to make informed decisions. I may have been raised a certain way and known people who turned out "ok" but when the research contradicts it in a significant way, I always take it into consideration. Even if it isn't my final decision.

For example, I choose a certain way to feed my daughter as a child that was very different than I was raised. Based primarily on research. I got a second cat because preliminary research at the time showed that kids with more than one pet were less likely to develop allergies and allergies ran on one side of her family.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 10:26 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,275,917 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
See I disagree here. The purpose of research is to make informed decisions. I may have been raised a certain way and known people who turned out "ok" but when the research contradicts it in a significant way, I always take it into consideration. Even if it isn't my final decision.
Thus the nature of a package deal. We have many things to consider. When people try to distill results into ONE factor (SAHM vs WOHM, SES, school district, neighborhood, nutrition, sleep patterns WHATEVER beef you have)


Quote:
For example, I choose a certain way to feed my daughter as a child that was very different than I was raised. Based primarily on research. I got a second cat because preliminary research at the time showed that kids with more than one pet were less likely to develop allergies and allergies ran on one side of her family.
Some research is going to be easily useful. One can see direct and measurable benefits to breastfeeding. (Not in any way to diss bottle feeding. I am glad for the advancements that have been made. It used to be made out of corn syrup!) Medical research is just different from sociology research.

The research/decision link wrt medical research is pretty easy. Research clearly shows that breastfeeding offers these possible advantages to my child. Decision is that I try my best to breast feed my baby. Pretty straight forward.

What exactly does the research about SAHM vs WOH parents? And how do we use those conclusions to make a decision? How do these studies even isolate for THAT factor? It just isn't helpful.
 
Old 01-24-2012, 10:27 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 19,788,894 times
Reputation: 12056
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
WE aren't measuring anything. *I* am. As are you, and anyone else. Based on my personal values. Within each family, there are values that we want to instill in our kids. Perhaps strong work ethic. Love of money (ha ha). Character. Integrity. Educational excellence... whatever.


COMPARING better across or between families is dumb. But that does not mean that each family does not strive to do its best to help their kids gain all the advantages of the kind of upbringing we think they ought to have.
But when a person purports that children with one sort of mother turn out BETTER than children with another sort of mother then the comparison is across families.

So I ask again, in the context we are discussing, what does it mean for a child to turn out "better"? My oldest son is almost an adult. So what attributes should I be measuring to see if he turned out "better" than someone else's child? I worked until he was around 10. Then I was home for a while, then I worked again, and now I am home. How might he have turned out "better" if I had continued to work? Or if I had stayed home for his entire life? What is "better"?
 
Old 01-24-2012, 10:31 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,275,917 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
But when a person purports that children with one sort of mother turn out BETTER than children with another sort of mother then the comparison is across families.
Yah. That's just dumb. What I am saying is that the converse, which I believe IvoryTickler to be saying, that no matter what you do as a parent it doesn't "matter" is not the case.
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