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That isn't what I want. That's what she wants. I can't change her and she doesn't want to change. So I'll just avoid her.
Okay. IMO, that is better than severing ties and you decided that.
I am going through the same thing with a relative. Anytime I Skype the family, she is the only one who doesn't say hi and made sure I knew that the reason why she isn't friendly was because of a letter I sent her. Well, guess what? She has always been unfriendly. The letter was kind of pointless. She is who she is. I could have accomplished the same thing simply by keeping my distance but being polite at the same time.
BTW: My letter just got the point across that if she didn't like me, it was her problem.
Okay. IMO, that is better than severing ties and you decided that.
I am going through the same thing with a relative. Anytime I Skype the family, she is the only one who doesn't say hi and made sure I knew that the reason why she isn't friendly was because of a letter I sent her. Well, guess what? She has always been unfriendly. The letter was kind of pointless. She is who she is. I could have accomplished the same thing simply by keeping my distance but being polite at the same time.
BTW: My letter just got the point across that if she didn't like me, it was her problem.
I'm not really talking about severing ties so much as not going out of my way to have any more contact than is necessary. Fortunately, for me, she's refused to attend family functions or allow dss to attend them (which is regrettable since he grew up very close to my two youngest brothers) for years so I don't have to see her at holidays. Parcel post works for birthday gifts for the kids.
You're right. She is who she is but she is also someone who is not important in my life. She contributes nothing to it but stress. It's been that way since dss started dating her.
Why do you care if she's saying how great she is and how sucky you are if you are confident that you have made the right decision for your family? It should be water off a duck's back... so it seems that perhaps you're not as confident of your decisions as you suggest.
I just don't care to hear it. We all know how great she thinks she is. How many times do we need to hear it? This has nothing to do with confidence in my choices. I think she's wrong and the only ways to deal with this situation are to either agree with her, which would be wrong, sit in, awkward, silence when she goes off on her self edifying rants or tell her she's wrong. There's no solution where people can even remain comfortable. We all know that SAH is not necessary and it doesn't produce better results so it's just not something you'd pat yourself on the back for. It's awkward to watch somone patting themselves on the back for something that is really irrelevent in the big scheme of things. Especially since she's putting down just about every other mother in the family in the process. Do you really think this is acceptable? I don't.
What is wrong with women like this? What makes them think they're so great? I could do without this kind of arrogance in my life. I'm kind of glad that dss has a job that takes him out of state for months at a time. I only, really, have to see her when he's home and then, some times, he comes to visit with the kids instead of us going there. She never comes here so we don't have to deal with her when he brings the kids.
I just don't care to hear it. We all know how great she thinks she is. How many times do we need to hear it? This has nothing to do with confidence in my choices. I think she's wrong and the only ways to deal with this situation are to either agree with her, which would be wrong, sit in, awkward, silence when she goes off on her self edifying rants or tell her she's wrong. There's no solution where people can even remain comfortable. We all know that SAH is not necessary and it doesn't produce better results so it's just not something you'd pat yourself on the back for. It's awkward to watch somone patting themselves on the back for something that is really irrelevent in the big scheme of things. Especially since she's putting down just about every other mother in the family in the process. Do you really think this is acceptable? I don't.
What is wrong with women like this? What makes them think they're so great? I could do without this kind of arrogance in my life. I'm kind of glad that dss has a job that takes him out of state for months at a time. I only, really, have to see her when he's home and then, some times, he comes to visit with the kids instead of us going there. She never comes here so we don't have to deal with her when he brings the kids.
Re: the second bold - she sounds arrogant and either so convinced that she is right that she doesn't care that she's putting others down, or not aware that she is putting others down.
Re: the first bold - while I think we can all agree that taking an extreme "I'm better than you" position wrt parenting is obnoxious, can you please differentiate consistently in your posts that you are talking about this extreme subset of SAHMs rather than SAHMs in general. As you noted, and many posters have noted, the majority of moms whether working or staying home or both are supportive of others making whatever choices work for their own families. I think you'll get a lot less argument and a greater amount of understanding/support if you make it clear, each time, that you are talking about an extreme group of SAHMs. JMHO.
I just don't care to hear it. We all know how great she thinks she is. How many times do we need to hear it? This has nothing to do with confidence in my choices. I think she's wrong and the only ways to deal with this situation are to either agree with her, which would be wrong, sit in, awkward, silence when she goes off on her self edifying rants or tell her she's wrong. There's no solution where people can even remain comfortable. We all know that SAH is not necessary and it doesn't produce better results so it's just not something you'd pat yourself on the back for. It's awkward to watch somone patting themselves on the back for something that is really irrelevent in the big scheme of things. Especially since she's putting down just about every other mother in the family in the process. Do you really think this is acceptable? I don't.
What is wrong with women like this? What makes them think they're so great? I could do without this kind of arrogance in my life. I'm kind of glad that dss has a job that takes him out of state for months at a time. I only, really, have to see her when he's home and then, some times, he comes to visit with the kids instead of us going there. She never comes here so we don't have to deal with her when he brings the kids.
It seems to me that the basis of this issue is that you and your DIL simply have a differing opinion, on a particular philosophy. She probably thinks the exact same thing as you, about you, because quite frankly (and I'm just trying to point out an observation, not insult you) - you come off exactly the same way. You also come off as arrogant, whether you are in reality or not or whether you mean to or not. So no wonder you're at an impasse.
People have all sorts of philosophical differences with their relatives, and they manage to overcome them and stay civil, because they agree to disagree and don't take their differences personally.
And, so what if she thinks she's great? You can't tell someone how they should feel about themselves. If she's putting others down in the process, then just choose not to be offended. She can't make you offended if you're secure in your own position. Just don't pay attention to it, or make an arrangement where you guys just don't discuss it.
Basically, it should only bother you if you let it bother you. Why are you letting it bother you so much?
(I'm only addressing the "arrogant SAHM" issue. If there are other issues, then that's another thread.)
I just don't care to hear it. We all know how great she thinks she is. How many times do we need to hear it? This has nothing to do with confidence in my choices. I think she's wrong and the only ways to deal with this situation are to either agree with her, which would be wrong, sit in, awkward, silence when she goes off on her self edifying rants or tell her she's wrong. There's no solution where people can even remain comfortable. We all know that SAH is not necessary and it doesn't produce better results so it's just not something you'd pat yourself on the back for. It's awkward to watch somone patting themselves on the back for something that is really irrelevent in the big scheme of things. Especially since she's putting down just about every other mother in the family in the process. Do you really think this is acceptable? I don't.
What is wrong with women like this? What makes them think they're so great? I could do without this kind of arrogance in my life. I'm kind of glad that dss has a job that takes him out of state for months at a time. I only, really, have to see her when he's home and then, some times, he comes to visit with the kids instead of us going there. She never comes here so we don't have to deal with her when he brings the kids.
This is just getting ridiculous. You obviously just don't like her and that is that. Suffice it to say you don't agree with HER decision to sah and that you feel SHE is looking for recognition. NOT EVERY SAHM is looking for a pat on the back.
YOU feel that working is better, that is YOUR OP and what works best for YOU.
Or maybe it doesn't because you seem really unhappy with your life in general.
Have you heard any of the sahm's on this thread agree that they are indeed looking for praise?
I think what everyone is looking for, whether working or not, is respect.
It seems to me that the basis of this issue is that you and your DIL simply have a differing opinion, on a particular philosophy. She probably thinks the exact same thing as you, about you, because quite frankly (and I'm just trying to point out an observation, not insult you) - you come off exactly the same way. You also come off as arrogant, whether you are in reality or not or whether you mean to or not. So no wonder you're at an impasse.
People have all sorts of philosophical differences with their relatives, and they manage to overcome them and stay civil, because they agree to disagree and don't take their differences personally.
And, so what if she thinks she's great? You can't tell someone how they should feel about themselves. If she's putting others down in the process, then just choose not to be offended. She can't make you offended if you're secure in your own position. Just don't pay attention to it, or make an arrangement where you guys just don't discuss it.
Basically, it should only bother you if you let it bother you. Why are you letting it bother you so much?
(I'm only addressing the "arrogant SAHM" issue. If there are other issues, then that's another thread.)
LOL, it's not arrogance when you can prove your point. Arrogance is when you insist you're right when you're not. It's confidence when you know you can prove your point. I have debated this issue and defended WM's because I was in a debate and it was appropriate to do so. THAT is not to be taken as a reflection of how I deal with people IRL. Even though I can show, with research, that SAH/WOH does not matter beyond the financial aspects, that is not something I'd discuss during a family gathering. That would not be appropriate.
My point is that there is no reason for me to attend gatherings where I'm going to be expected to sit in silence while someone breaks her arm patting herself on the back while putting down my choices. I don't have to be insecure in my choices to not want to deal with that. I don't know why people keep saying that being put down should not bother me if I'm confident. Being confident in your choices does not mean you're comfortable sitting there while someone keeps putting them down. This kind of drama does not belong at family functions.
I don't give a rats arse what she says with her friends. I think about as much of them as I do her (she hangs out with a group of moms who are all of this mindset but that is irrelevent other than to point out that I don't care what they say when I'm not there.) and their opinions don't matter but I really don't want to hear it. We're all, perfectly, aware that she thinks she's great. Why do we need to hear it again?
When I get together with family, I just want to enjoy myself and catch up. We can't do that with her around. The second someone starts talking about what is going on in their job, you can count on her to start self edifying. We're all aware that she thinks she's so much better than the rest of us. We've heard it all before. I just don't want to hear it anymore.
This is just getting ridiculous. You obviously just don't like her and that is that. Suffice it to say you don't agree with HER decision to sah and that you feel SHE is looking for recognition. NOT EVERY SAHM is looking for a pat on the back.
YOU feel that working is better, that is YOUR OP and what works best for YOU.
Or maybe it doesn't because you seem really unhappy with your life in general.
Have you heard any of the sahm's on this thread agree that they are indeed looking for praise?
I think what everyone is looking for, whether working or not, is respect.
As I have said before, I have no issue with her decision to SAH. That is her choice. I have a problem with her arrogance and self edification regarding that decision. SAH isn't some special kind of parenting that deserves kudos. We're all parents. We all do the same things. I don't see dads or WM's asking anyone to pat them on the back for what they do at home and we do the same things that SAHM's do. SAHM's just have 40 more hours per week to get it all done. Why would that make it something you'd get patted on the back for?
I have stayed home, I have worked part time and I have worked full time. What I did as a parent didn't change. All that changed was the number of hours per week that I had to get things done. I really don't get patting yourself on the back for being a parent of any kind. It's not like becomming parents is something we did for altruistic reasons. It's, quite arguably, the single most selfish and self centered thing we do in our lives. When you think about it, it's pretty darned arrogant of us to think that we are so great we should be allowed to raise another human being and this world already has too many of us in it so the world could do with fewer of us choosing to become parents.
LOL, it's not arrogance when you can prove your point. Arrogance is when you insist you're right when you're not. It's confidence when you know you can prove your point. I have debated this issue and defended WM's because I was in a debate and it was appropriate to do so. THAT is not to be taken as a reflection of how I deal with people IRL. Even though I can show, with research, that SAH/WOH does not matter beyond the financial aspects, that is not something I'd discuss during a family gathering. That would not be appropriate.
My point is that there is no reason for me to attend gatherings where I'm going to be expected to sit in silence while someone breaks her arm patting herself on the back while putting down my choices. I don't have to be insecure in my choices to not want to deal with that. I don't know why people keep saying that being put down should not bother me if I'm confident. Being confident in your choices does not mean you're comfortable sitting there while someone keeps putting them down. This kind of drama does not belong at family functions.
I don't give a rats arse what she says with her friends. I think about as much of them as I do her (she hangs out with a group of moms who are all of this mindset but that is irrelevent other than to point out that I don't care what they say when I'm not there.) and their opinions don't matter but I really don't want to hear it. We're all, perfectly, aware that she thinks she's great. Why do we need to hear it again?
When I get together with family, I just want to enjoy myself and catch up. We can't do that with her around. The second someone starts talking about what is going on in their job, you can count on her to start self edifying. We're all aware that she thinks she's so much better than the rest of us. We've heard it all before. I just don't want to hear it anymore.
So when the family gets together, at some point people start talking about their jobs. Is she supposed to sit there silently while everyone else talks? Or is she allowed to talk about her job? Being a SAHM is her job. With 5 kids it is a pretty hard job. Why wouldn't she talk about what she does at work? Or is she supposed to sit there quietly while everyone with real jobs gets to talk about their accomplishments or frustrations on the job?
So when the family gets together, at some point people start talking about their jobs. Is she supposed to sit there silently while everyone else talks? Or is she allowed to talk about her job? Being a SAHM is her job. With 5 kids it is a pretty hard job. Why wouldn't she talk about what she does at work? Or is she supposed to sit there quietly while everyone with real jobs gets to talk about their accomplishments or frustrations on the job?
Have you been reading my posts? She doesn't talk about what she's been doing as a SAHM. She talks about how great she is because she's a SAHM and how she's doing what all mothers should do. If she wanted to talk about volunteering at her children's school or the project she just finished at home, I wouldn't be posting this. She doesn't talk about what she does. She breaks her arm congratulating herself for being a SAHM. We're all aware she thinks she's the greatest thing since sliced bread and anyone who didn't choose to SAH is a bad mom. I'm just tired of hearing it.
Would you want to sit and listen to me tell you how being an teacher is what everyone should do, that you're too stupid to realize how it's the only choice if you chose otherwise and how great I am because I am one??? How fast do you think that would end a family party? She doesn't talk about what she does. She congratulates herself for being better than everyone who didn't choose what she chose. She's arrogant.
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