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Old 03-15-2013, 11:52 AM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,738,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I can show you example after example in the high school in which I teach. I hear we have 8 validictorians this year. All students with 4.0 GPA's in a very competitive school. All you have to do is drive through the neighborhoods and look at the houses to realize that the acorns did not fall far from the tree.

My own family is a prime example. Half of my siblings are gifted and half of their children are gifted. Am I supposed to believe that is a coincidence?
Okay. But you often post about your two daughters, who are diametrically opposed in just about every way.

Which acorn is yours?
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
940 posts, read 1,570,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
"Gifted" isn't really determined by any school or any one employer or customer

It's determined by how market values one's productivity in one's career, perhaps best measured by one's pay and net worth vs age

Suspect loudest parents claiming "gifted" kids are themselves people w/mediocre career paths

IME, the highest achieving parents are often the most mellow and secure about their kids' formal schooling and college/career choices

In any highly competitive, lucrative industry like software or hedge funds lots of folks graduated at top of class from elite colleges but many are outgunned by some college dropout or alum of a non-elite college who is a co. founder and/or CEO (and who may never have been invited into "gifted" ranks in elem school (prob wasn't very good at coloring within the lines or following instructions/groupthink or memorizing useless facts/trivia that constitutes much of formal education in either K-12 or college...))
Who cares about being highest achieving?

Don't people understand it's about finding your talents, what you love to do, what you are good at and how you can benefit the society best and to make the world a better place?

After all research has proven that money doesn't make you happy. It's sad when parents teach kids otherwise, they are bound to burn out and be dissapointed. The last thing I would want for my child is to end up in some highly competitive toxic corporate environment, where morals are bent for the sake of profits.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:15 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 4,596,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west seattle gal View Post
Almost every white or Asian native English speaking child in my city is gifted, or at least that is what one would gather after talking to most of the parents. A substantial number of kids are even "twice gifted", or suffer from having both a high IQ and a learning disability. The gifted child is usually identified in preschool -- sensitive temperament, profound insight/statements, irritation to tags in clothing, struggling social skills, perhaps a gluten tolerance, and early reading. Usually they are bored in school, and once they start K or 1st, parents are upset with the public school system b/c there is not enough resources directed towards their very special child. They often become vocal advocates for segregated education, gifted vs non-gifted-identified.

God, hear me *scream*. This kind of parent drives me nuts, and they are everywhere. Public, private, every kind of school in Seattle. Somehow I have even ended up in spontaneous conversations at the vet and grocery store w/ people wanting to let me know that their child is gifted, but school birthday parties are the worst. I dread school functions b/c of the parent population. I appreciate that parents place an emphasis on the importance of education & stay involved w/ their kids' schools, but *please* this is ridiculous. Less than 1% of the U.S. (or world's) population is technically gifted, and they can't possibly all live in Seattle or go to my child's school.

I know that this gifted obsession is a function of having a high concentration of well-educated, successful parents. Parents who focus every moment and dime on their child's learning, including utilizing flash cards, tutors, and all kinds of educational systems from an early age (of COURSE a child reads early when someone takes the time to teach them). From it extends a self-centeredness and sense of entitlement. I have heard that NYC also has this element. Is this type of thing present in your city, too?

I would really like to know which cities (if any) are different. Perhaps we'll consider moving there!

Can't parents be educated and laid-back?
Don't come to Virginia. We're all gifted, too. And whenever we get the chance, we like to post about it at length on Citydata, or at least find a way to mention it somehow, even if the post is unrelated.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
940 posts, read 1,570,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaMc46 View Post
Come to central Vermont. Here we have a special ed epidemic. No, I'm not talking about kids with autism or classic learning disabilities that require special attention and services.

Rather, half our education budget goes to "special" children who can't sit still, respect their teachers, or interact with their classmates without beating them up. Many need a personal para-educator "kid cop" to shadow them throughout the day.

Then of course you have the child that needs access to an indoor swing b/c of sensory issues, the kid who needs horse-therapy (administered off site and billed to the school) and the kids who need a taxi cab service to and from school b/c they are too disruptive on the bus and their parents can't/won't drive them.

Because all of the money that's used for these services, we haven't added a program for non-special students (gifted or not) in years and two years ago we slashed several excellent teachers who haven't been replaced.

I wouldn't mind having some of these "my child is gifted" parents instead of "I can't parent my child so let the schools do it" type of parents.
Our school district spends $500,000 for driving special needs kids to and from school. But for most school district it's a fast growing group and the most cost-intensive, that does need more funds that need to be taken away from regular kids.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I teach at a public science magnet, meaning we take the top 1-10% of students in each district in our state (assuming they all want to come to our school). Therefore out of our 75 or so freshman who enter, most are above average, some are average, and maybe 7 or 8 are truly gifted.

Many of our parents like to beat their chests and brag about their "gifted" students. I even overheard one parent telling another their kid was the top ranked sophomore which is a joke as we do not rank our students at all.

Eh, after teaching some very gifted kids for the last 7 years, I will bet on the success of a kid with a great work ethic over someone with 15 more IQ points anyday of the week.
I sense some anti-gifted prejudice in this thread. How about a kids with more IQ points and good work ethic? It is not their fault after all, they were born like that.

If we don't give these kids extra challenges their gifts might be wasted. Look at our society. Human intelligence falls somewhere in three categories: average, smart, and below average.

While it's annoying if some parents brag in your face about it, the phenomenon does exist, and the talents of these kids need to be harnessed.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Well the best advice I got as far as kids was from a couple with a Downs syndrome daughter. She was living in a group home with other women who were similarly "challenged".

The mother said she was very proud of her daughter, her daughter was exceptionally happy, very happy with life itself.

The parents said that their daughter loved life, acted like life itself was a gift, was never angry, never hateful, never mean. They said that the best thing you can want for your child is happiness. It's far better to raise a happy child than a brilliant child who hates his life.

What's really important after all? We all get one life to live -- and in the end it doesn't matter how much money you could make, how your test scores were but how much you loved your life.
I agree. Parents are too focused on educating the mind rather then educating the heart. After all, schooling is only a fraction of life itself.

Plus, if a child is truly gifted he/she will seek out mental challenges on his own, as well. That's what creativity and imagination is for.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
Well said. I have four boys. One is academically ahead while the others fly by the seat of their pants. My two older boys caused me the most worry as their grades and apptitude test scores were at the lowest in the class. They barely graduated. Fast forward three years...Both boys (twins) have incredible jobs earning an even more incredible income. They both have their own homes and are totally supportive of themselves. They did not go to college, one is a welder the other is a hardrock driller. Funny thing is that two of their classmates that they graduated with were "gifted". These kids are still dependent on their parents, struggling through college as, imo, they did not have to learn the "hard knocks" of life in highschool. Sure they got good grades and had that label "gifted" but because their parents were certain that they were going to succeed in life because of a label, they didn't teach the kids how to just "live".
That's my philosophy as well. I actually have four boys (under age 8). Their father is a carpenter, but he can make $100 grand in two months by flipping houses. I have a masters degree, so I am more of an intellectual, but currently I am a SAHM.

I think when parents focus too much on academics, they steer their kids in one direction, towards college. But that's only one option among many. It's not the only way to make money, and it's not the only way to make a living and have a happy satisfying life.

I want to teach my kids that they have many many options.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,754,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Okay. But you often post about your two daughters, who are diametrically opposed in just about every way.

Which acorn is yours?
Both. Dd#1 is much smarter than me but that kind of intelligence runs in my family (she's one of 4 grandchildren, out of 10) who are highly gifted). Dd#1 is most like me. She's smart but takes the long road. She'll come into her own in college. At 18, my peers could run circles around me. At 25 I could run circles around them. Dd#2 has the same slower developmental curve but the raw intelligence is there.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
940 posts, read 1,570,130 times
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Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post
Well add Indiana to the list. I don't know if its a middle class thing but the smallish blue collar town we lived in before, parents didnt talk that way. In fact, a lot of parents had a lazy attitude about education which I detested. So we move to Indiana, a middle class to wealthily area and by golly everyone here is raising a genius! I felt like I went from one extreme to the other. Is there is a middle?

When my son was making the transition from Jr. high to high school, there was an informational meeting about the process. It was to only last 30 minutes. It lasted almost 2 hrs. Do you know why? The parents kept raising their hands asking questions about the AP classes and how their little suzy or Johnny was so gifted they wanted to make sure they were going to be on the fast track to college. The teachers and counselors conducting the meeting were patient, had the look of been there, done that but it was annoying to me. I got the feeling it wasn't so much the parents needed the information, seemed more of a brag session. I have a lovely, sensitive, caring kid of average intelligence but it doesn't take long to make a parent of a such a child feel that their future may be DOOOMED! I will be honest, I started to really stress about it. OMG, what will become of my son? Then I settled down and relaxed more but its pretty intense at times.

My son's high school offers 4 diplomas. This was new to me and maybe that is the trend now. I was baffled. When I went to high school, there was one diploma. So there is the Academic diploma that consists of all AP classes. Then there is the Technical diploma which consists of a lot of computer courses. Then there is the Core diploma which consists of some pre-college courses and finally the general diploma, which by the way the district describes it, I thought it was a GED at first. Its actually the state certified diploma, hence a regular high school diploma. I think the education is good but I think it seems pretty intense at the same time. I wanted a more college focused environment but sheesh...be careful what you wish for.

Most of the parents are highly educated but I am truly amazed at the lack of social skills and overall humanity among them. I never met such critical snobs in my life. This attitude is definitely passed on into the school district. A couple of years ago the jr. high teacher had a meeting about how the kids were to do a job shadow experience. Kids needed to research and find a company that would let them job shadow for a day. The teacher said it would give them life experience and help them think about their futures as we don't want our kids working in factories. Well I was appalled. My husband works in a factory and there are two main manufacturing corporations in the area. Some of the parents work there and make a good living. I looked over and saw a man dressed in his work uniform and he shifted uncomfortably after the teacher made his comment. After everyone filtered out I spoke with the teacher alone. I told him how I appreciate that the schools are so focused on college but his comment was a bit offensive as some of us fall more into the blue collar sector verses white collar. The teacher is a nice guy and apologized. He said he felt remorse after his comment rolled off his tongue. He was completely sincere but I can see how he deals with so many parents that a factory type job would be a complete failure in their eyes. What I found amusing as some of my son's friends just job shadowed at their parents work and didnt learn a thing. They hung out in mom or dad's office playing with their iPhone for 8 hrs.

Ahh well. OP thanks for making this thread. It let me b*tch a little.
This is why I don't want to live in an 'affluent' town, to avoid the unnecessary competitiveness and negativity.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
940 posts, read 1,570,130 times
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Probably, if they are rather unsuccessful. Successful parents know what made them successful and they will push their children that direction.
I will take laid-back and happy over successful and stressful.
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