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Old 03-17-2013, 08:23 AM
Status: "Happy Advent!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,367 posts, read 99,673,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It's interesting when you look at adults. You're left wondering where all the gifted kids went.

Very often gifted just means ahead and, in time, others just catch up. At 6, dd's ability on the piano put her in the gifted category. Today, at 15, she's accomplished but she has a lot of company now. She just started earlier than the others. In fact some of her peers who started later have passed her by. Yet, no one would have argued that she wasn't gifted at 6.

When she was in 3rd grade, she read on a 9th grade level. Now in the 10th grade, she reads on about a college entry level. The gap is closing. Often that's what happens.
I once worked in a children's mental health center. About 1/3 of our kids had developmental delays. Our director liked to say (and said many times) that the incidence of "mental retardation" (the term in vogue at the time) goes down in adulthood! You don't see it. The guy who pumps your gas may not have been the class valedictorian, but he doesn't "look" or act any different from the customer, who may be a bank president.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,947,130 times
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I once worked in a children's mental health center. About 1/3 of our kids had developmental delays. Our director liked to say (and said many times) that the incidence of "mental retardation" (the term in vogue at the time) goes down in adulthood! You don't see it. The guy who pumps your gas may not have been the class valedictorian, but he doesn't "look" or act any different from the customer, who may be a bank president.
You're right. I'm convinced that we all have different developmental curves and that many of our differences go away as we get older. Some of what we take for being slow or gifted is just a different pacing. Unfortunately, we have an education system that is one size fits all that does not give second chances. Perhaps there should be 10-14 year plans for education rather than putting everyone on a 12 year plan. Of course that would cost money so it's not going to happen.

I find it interesting that I always hung out with the smart kids in high school but wasn't one of them until college. It's like I knew where I'd end up fitting in the end. I just didn't fit there yet.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:34 AM
 
11,626 posts, read 19,880,378 times
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I doubt you work with these kids as often as I do but regardless, it is hugely important to emphasize that even more important than IQ is work ethic. The real divider of those who excel isn't IQ its effort, go look at the 1000 hour rule.
This is a great point. The problem with not providing challenging work for gifted kids is that they never have to work to succeed. I agree 100% that work ethic is much more important than IQ when it comes to success as an adult. However, we run the risk of not developing a work ethic in some kids if we do not provide a challenge to the most intelligent of them.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,947,130 times
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Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
This is a great point. The problem with not providing challenging work for gifted kids is that they never have to work to succeed. I agree 100% that work ethic is much more important than IQ when it comes to success as an adult. However, we run the risk of not developing a work ethic in some kids if we do not provide a challenge to the most intelligent of them.
Yup. I see this in dd#2. She's lazy. She admits she's lazy. She has never had to work for anything. Her sister, OTOH, has to study to get by. Dd#1 will be better equipped for college and life because she knows how to work to get ahead. Dd#2 still has to learn that.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,624,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
You're right. I'm convinced that we all have different developmental curves and that many of our differences go away as we get older. Some of what we take for being slow or gifted is just a different pacing. Unfortunately, we have an education system that is one size fits all that does not give second chances. Perhaps there should be 10-14 year plans for education rather than putting everyone on a 12 year plan. Of course that would cost money so it's not going to happen.

I find it interesting that I always hung out with the smart kids in high school but wasn't one of them until college. It's like I knew where I'd end up fitting in the end. I just didn't fit there yet.
I totally agree with you Ivorytickler. I'd like to add that being labeled gifted at a young age simply implies how you learn and at what rate you learn. My son learns a lot of information at a fast pace. Now that doesn't mean he'd choose the information needed currently for his grade level, nor does it mean he will apply it in a class. It simply means he get's bored at a slower pace. I still have to put a direction on it as far as accomplishing current academic goals are concerned. I'm fully aware, as anyone with a gifted kid is, this so called "gift" doesn't set him apart from the rest in adulthood. It merely assists others understanding that he takes in a lot of information at a fast pace right now. Later it could and probably will even out with the rest of the gang.

I equate it with growth charts. Physically a child in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th grade could be tall for their age only later to be passed up and end up being an adult who is average or below average height. This also happens with a boy who is short until he hit's 11th grade, only to come back after summer break to be six foot. So, the boy who is tall early gets to play basket ball his junior year. By his senior year most others have caught up. Or worse yet, it's assumed he'll play basket ball because he is tall, but he has no desire, nor coordination to do so.

I believe the same goes for the mind. My son's mind took off early, he has abilities of someone 5 years older right now plus the patients it takes to learn detail about his interests. At 9 he is in Algebra and reads at a 10th grade level. I'm aware that others will catch up, even welcome the thought because it's hard for him to be that far ahead. He wants to fit in somewhere, it can be isolating at that age. Not many 9 year olds want to talk about the things he is interested in at this age. IMO.

Eventually things with his peers will even out. I'm here just to reign it in and keep it focused so he can get an education. If I don't he will turn it on somewhere else and get lost in the array of facts presented in off topic subjects. That's ok for somethings but when I just let him go it can be all encompassing. He will get so caught up in the history of video games or code and hacking that he won't finish the homework due that week. It's not like parents of gifted kids have less work to do, sometimes it's more. I welcome the day things start to even out actually. I'd love to take a break. As it is, some parent imagine my reigning in his attention and direction means I'm pushing a higher learning level upon my son like hitler. lol Couldn't be further from the truth. IMO.

Gifted kids are similar to any special need. That's why they share funding within that category. They usually have other special needs along with it as well. They learn in a different way. As they grow, others catch up, some pass them with the amount of education they actually acquire credit for. I'm fully aware of this as I see you are. Our goals are the same as any other parent. A decent education that can be measured so they get a good job that supports them. IMO.

The epidemic is that we recognize it more now and label it. Just like other special needs, we've learned to see it earlier. Who knows if this is a curse or a blessing. IMO> of course. We are currently doing this in all areas of special needs. Time will tell if it's made a difference. It might only make things easier, which is better than nothing.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,624,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yup. I see this in dd#2. She's lazy. She admits she's lazy. She has never had to work for anything. Her sister, OTOH, has to study to get by. Dd#1 will be better equipped for college and life because she knows how to work to get ahead. Dd#2 still has to learn that.
I agree as well!!

Work ethic equates success, not intelligence. I'm arguing this very thing on another thread at the moment. I know this because I have three kids who all tested "gifted" and I'll tell you first hand part of their gift wasn't work ethic. lol As a matter of fact, being gifted make the drift from reality factor more challenging at times. IMO.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:17 AM
 
11,626 posts, read 19,880,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yup. I see this in dd#2. She's lazy. She admits she's lazy. She has never had to work for anything. Her sister, OTOH, has to study to get by. Dd#1 will be better equipped for college and life because she knows how to work to get ahead. Dd#2 still has to learn that.
My kids school does not have honors social studies in middle school. Yet freshman can take AP Human Geography. My middle son got a D on his first test in Human Geography. He had no idea how much he would have to study for that test because he never had to study for social studies in middle school. He did ok in the class overall because he "got it" after that test.

I agree with lkb0714's statement that work ethic is more important than brain power when it comes to success (both academic and in life). However, without advanced classes there are some kids who just don't learn how to work hard because they never have to do it. This is one of the reasons that I advocate extracurricular activities like music, art, theater and athletics for very smart kids. No matter how smart they are they may not be good at these things. These activities can provide an experience where they have to work hard to be good at something.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,624,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
My kids school does not have honors social studies in middle school. Yet freshman can take AP Human Geography. My middle son got a D on his first test in Human Geography. He had no idea how much he would have to study for that test because he never had to study for social studies in middle school. He did ok in the class overall because he "got it" after that test.

I agree with lkb0714's statement that work ethic is more important than brain power when it comes to success (both academic and in life). However, without advanced classes there are some kids who just don't learn how to work hard because they never have to do it. This is one of the reasons that I advocate extracurricular activities like music, art, theater and athletics for very smart kids. No matter how smart they are they may not be good at these things. These activities can provide an experience where they have to work hard to be good at something.
I also agree with this. It provides that challenge, and allows them to see others talents which is a reality they need to learn. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.

Advanced classes keep the gifted busy. Without them most would end up at home learning so they would stop driving the teacher insane with constant exploratory questions. Sitting in my kids gifted class I felt for the teacher. 30 kids all sensitive to their surroundings, questioning each sentence out of her mouth, all day long. I gave her a pat on the back as I left and was glad I only had a couple to deal with. lol
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:10 AM
 
15,923 posts, read 13,376,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
This is a great point. The problem with not providing challenging work for gifted kids is that they never have to work to succeed. I agree 100% that work ethic is much more important than IQ when it comes to success as an adult. However, we run the risk of not developing a work ethic in some kids if we do not provide a challenge to the most intelligent of them.
And you think in a school that has the entire curriculum geared towards advanced STEM topics ISN'T challenging?
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:52 AM
 
11,626 posts, read 19,880,378 times
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
And you think in a school that has the entire curriculum geared towards advanced STEM topics ISN'T challenging?
How could you EVER get that from my statements?
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