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Old 02-02-2012, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,555,754 times
Reputation: 7421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Because complaint are not vetted by any science that understands how to determine causation or correlation rather than just coincidence. I eat an apple. I complain that the apple gave me a belly ache. We really have no way to know if the apple had anything to do with the belly ache.
Not until 40 people in the same area ate the apples from the same place and got stomach aches. I think the majority of parents can figure out relation just fine.

 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,555,754 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Exactly. To use an example I have had a lot of experience with, it is like people reporting an incidence of food poisoning and assuming they got it the last place they ate. That is almost never the case, but that's who gets blamed every time. No way am I going to use complaints from the public to decided what vaccines or meds to use or not use. I'll use the results of an investigation by a reputable agency, but not the complaints themselves.
Well, if I walked into a room and out of 50 people 5 of those got sick eating the salad I'd simply wait and see if it amounted to more. If the chef told me that they probably got sick from something else then no, I wouldn't dive right in, I'd wait. The chef is making his living off the salad, why would he care if I'm sick?
He would only care if enough got sick to shut him down. But not about a few. So I'd wait. I'd wait and see. If he got shut down later for his bad salad I'd be happy I waited.
My kids are worth the wait. As I stated before, they aren't sexually active, I'm in no hurry. If they were I'd simply weigh the risks.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:32 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,537,960 times
Reputation: 14278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
People not vaccinating doesnt cause a weakening of the herd, it makes it stronger because the weak die. But I dont subscribe to that theory, just clarifying. And you are correct that a pandemic or epidemic will come and kill of the people who dont have a natural immunity. The planet is over populated right?
No, I don't believe the planet is overpopulated and I also don't believe that we should simply leave it up for "nature to decide" when we have the ability to decide ourselves. I imagine FDR if given the choice of living out his existence crippled by polio or having a vaccine, would most likely choose the vaccine.

You and others who choose not to vaccinate are not watching your children die of easily preventable diseases because those of us who do vaccinate keep them protected. Every parent who makes the choice you advocate weakens that protection and pushes us closer to the edge where epidemics can occur.

I imagine your attitude would change if you had to standby while your child died from panencephalitis that you could have prevented with a simple and SAFE vaccination.

Like I said, you can have your choice free of criticism when I can hold you legally responsible for the ramifications of your choice...but you don't want that, you want to be able to make your choice, because it's your "right" and consequence on the rest of us be damned.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:32 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 2,892,193 times
Reputation: 1948
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOhioBound View Post
Does anyone spend anytime researching what all the vaccines give us and not just what they prevent? Everyone is just a ok with putting man made chemicals in their bodies? No thank you- I was a guinea pig in the Army having to get every shot that they wanted to give us- even when we had NO idea what it was to prevent or what the side effects were. I am sorry, but I find it EXTREMELY impossible that vaccines due not cause ANY adverse reactions that are bad for the body. Sure, SOME may PREVENT a disease or virus, but what else are they actually helping the body produce? If you want you or your child to have all the vaccines in the world, then so be it. Just don't expect others to line up for theirs as freely
Most Pro-vacc'ers seem to be afraid to get into the details of just what all is so unnatural about the shots. You won't find them discussing the "route of entry" into the body vs. the natural route of entry of pathogens into our bodies. This putting these manmade concoctions directly into the bloodstream is a huge matter. How much has just this, been studied?

The concoctions...this taking various shots and hitting a body with more disease than anyone in the natural course of their day would encounter, is also a huge matter.

The facts that whenever there is an outbreak of any childhood diseases that there's always more than one or two kids that are fully immunized and also some that are partially immunized for it is one of the many things that you have to search for yourself to find the truth about.

There are more than 100 HPV viruses and perhaps an infinite amount of variants of those! Does this shot still only contain FOUR of them?!

Last edited by Sunnysee; 02-02-2012 at 03:40 PM..
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:36 PM
 
Location: here
24,473 posts, read 28,761,114 times
Reputation: 31056
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, if I walked into a room and out of 50 people 5 of those got sick eating the salad I'd simply wait and see if it amounted to more. If the chef told me that they probably got sick from something else then no, I wouldn't dive right in, I'd wait. The chef is making his living off the salad, why would he care if I'm sick?
He would only care if enough got sick to shut him down. But not about a few. So I'd wait. I'd wait and see. If he got shut down later for his bad salad I'd be happy I waited.
My kids are worth the wait. As I stated before, they aren't sexually active, I'm in no hurry. If they were I'd simply weigh the risks.
What if the 5 people are from the same family and eat all of their meals together?
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:37 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,537,960 times
Reputation: 14278
Moderator cut: Removed reference to deleted post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Most Pro-vacc'ers seem to be afraid to get into the details of just what all is so unnatural about the shots. You won't find them discussing the "route of entry" into the body vs. the natural route of entry of pathogens into our bodies. This putting these manmade concoctions directly into the bloodstream is a huge matter. How much has just this, been studied?

The concoctions...this taking various shots and hitting a body with more disease than anyone in the natural course of their day would encounter, is also a huge matter.

The facts that whenever there is an outbreak of any childhood diseases that there's always more than one or two kids that are fully immunized and also some that are partially immunized for it is one of the many things that you have to search for yourself to find the truth about.
When you are willing to take full legal responsibility for the repercussions of your "choice", then I'll give you your choice. You obviously would prefer facts gleaned from "OMGVACCINESAREKILLINGOURKIDS.ORG" then you would from the CDC or countless medical journals.

Last edited by JustJulia; 02-03-2012 at 05:49 AM..
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: BK All Day
4,480 posts, read 8,324,934 times
Reputation: 4288
So if your daughter had sex with her one and only boyfriend who maybe had one partner and lied about it and she got cervical cancer. Would you stand over her bed while she is getting a hysterectomy at 25 years old and say "you will fight it off". No? Oh wait I forgot those things don't happen to you.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,555,754 times
Reputation: 7421
[quote=FinsterRufus;22820838]I don't have a fear of cervical cancer. And, I'm not making moral assumptions, I'm having a discussion regarding whether social responsibility is a factor in deciding whether to vaccinate against a communicable disease.

Oh really, which disease? The hpv virus? What about the pill for toe fungus? Should we all take that to stop it's spread, it spreads everywhere you know.


And if your child is of a sexually active age, you can't "wait to decide". You either decide or you don't. If your child is not, then I don't get why YOU are scare mongering people away from it.

I'm not scaring anyone away from anything. I'm simply defending my right to chose. That is all. I have never said I don't think anyone else should get it, you've said you think EVERYONE else should get it due to your social responsibility. I think you just want a bandwagon. I'm not riding and I'll get on it if and when I feel like it becomes my social responsibility. Not when you think it is.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,555,754 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
What if the 5 people are from the same family and eat all of their meals together?
lol, well with that information then I'd have an easier decision.
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:47 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 2,892,193 times
Reputation: 1948
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
People want something to blame when their perfect creation turns out less then perfect. Why not a pharmaceutical company? This one has already been blown so out of the water as to not even be worthy of debate anymore. Wakefield shouldn't have had his medical license revoked and credibility destroyed...he should have been put on trial for every person who died because someone believed his BS.



When you are willing to take full legal responsibility for the repercussions of your "choice", then I'll give you your choice. You obviously would prefer facts gleaned from "OMGVACCINESAREKILLINGOURKIDS.ORG" then you would from the CDC or countless medical journals.

I send this comment, and wisely so, right back atcha. I've researched the shots for over 30 years and apparently my eyes and ears have been touched by many thousands more than they have, yours, of LIVES that have been damaged and altered in bad, to literally horrendous ways.


As for "my choice," you are powerless to have any effect on it, whatsoever. You never have and you never will. Thank God~
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