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Old 02-03-2012, 11:00 PM
 
Location: BK All Day
4,480 posts, read 8,351,828 times
Reputation: 4288

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Would you say the suicides that occur with use of drugs like Zoloft are unrelated to the drug??? If there are neurological issues due to the vaccine that resulted in the suicides, you can, indeed, link the suicides to the vaccine. This vaccine is known to cause neurological issues. Most mild but who is to say how they will affect the way a young girl thinks?

I don't care how many kids die after getting these shots, ONE is too many. I love the "One less" commercials. How many of those who died would have counted themselves among the 50% of people who never get the virus, or the 45% who get it and then fight it off on their own without incidence? And if they were in the 5%, how many of them would have been diagnosed in time to treat the issue? And even if they end up dying because of the issue, how many more years of life might they have had before that happened?

This vaccine is just not worth it. I know one young lady was perfectly healthy until she got the first shot. Within weeks she was confined to a wheel chair and it appears she's not going to get better. They're claiming the vaccine had nothing to do with it yet they have no explanation for what happened to her. She passed out within hours of getting the vaccine and it's been down hill since then and we're supposed to believe that this strange malady just, coincidentally, showed up right after getting the vaccine???? I don't buy it. She was healthy and now she has palsy so severe she can't talk, walk or even write her name.

My dd's can be taught to protect themselves without this vaccine and even if they don't, there's a 90% chance nothing will happen and if something does, there's a high liklihood it will be something like I had that is caught in time to be treated. I will teach my girls to protect themselves and that includes regular pap smears. IMO, this vaccine is not worth the risk.
So my experience doesn't count? Why don't I count? I'm damaged! No one seems to care. I guess I need a blog to make someone care...

 
Old 02-03-2012, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,089 posts, read 99,190,340 times
Reputation: 31569
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiogirl22 View Post
So my experience doesn't count? Why don't I count? I'm damaged! No one seems to care. I guess I need a blog to make someone care...
To the anti-immunization crowd, you're just collateral damage in their world. People who get diseases don't count. Someone who gets a sore arm from a shot, now that's a travesty.

I'll give you a big hug. ((((((((((()))))))))
 
Old 02-04-2012, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,582,254 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiogirl22 View Post
So my experience doesn't count? Why don't I count? I'm damaged! No one seems to care. I guess I need a blog to make someone care...
Is this really about you needing us to care? What would your experience count for exactly?
Nobody on here has a lack of compassion for someone who was ill, we all care but people who die from a vaccine or get seriously hurt don't even have acknowledgment that it could be caused by the vaccine. There is nobody to sue, see or talk to about it. The drug company won't pay for a funeral, hospital costs, not a damn thing. You can try and sue but......well you laughed at me when I even considered paying attention to those silly people.

Imagine if you got your healthy happy kid a shot for something that you aren't even sure will work and they were dead a week later? With no cause attached. Just imagine the guilt, how could you continue living with that? And you knew before that shot that she was a happy, healthy kid? Give parents a break a minute will ya. It's a very hard decision to make.

You aren't the poster child for the hpv vaccine. There can't be one yet, nobody knows if the lack of these 4 types of hpv will reduce the number of cervical cancer cases down the road. Or if this shot will really prevent hpv or how long it will if it does. And, let's not forget that viruses change to live. This shot could possibly make a more potent form of hpv come about, one that is more effective in giving you cervical cancer. Without knowing this yet how hard a decision do you think this should be for a parent? No biggy? I mean are you really saying "look at me" "I'm why you should get the shot?" If you are you are willing to take a lot of responsibility on for other peoples kids that I'm not willing to do.

It doesn't mean people don't wish you could have prevented it. People like me just don't know if it's worth their kid getting hurt or killed right now by taking a leap of faith that this shot will cure anything.

I think people would care if my kid died, feel bad for me, but they wouldn't accept them being poster children for not getting it. If I came back and said my kids were hurt or killed after this shot I'm sure you would all say that it was my imagination. I have no illusions about that but I don't think they would excuse it for collateral damage. That's ridiculous assumption. I hope you are smart enough and don't take that comment seriously.

Everyone has sympathy for anyone who has suffered from any serious illness. Including people who aren't sure they will get the vaccine for their kids. Let's not cloud the thread with it.

Last edited by PoppySead; 02-04-2012 at 12:27 AM..
 
Old 02-04-2012, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,582,254 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
To the anti-immunization crowd, you're just collateral damage in their world. People who get diseases don't count. Someone who gets a sore arm from a shot, now that's a travesty.

I'll give you a big hug. ((((((((((()))))))))
Really??????? I would never say that. The people who get cancer are not collateral damage to most people regardless of how you would view them, you don't speak for anyone but yourself. The kids that die or are harmed by the vaccine are not collateral damage either. This is why it's a decision to be made personally, by the one who will take the responsibility of the action.
 
Old 02-04-2012, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,618 posts, read 26,307,193 times
Reputation: 26715
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Really??????? I would never say that. The people who get cancer are not collateral damage to most people regardless of how you would view them, you don't speak for anyone but yourself. The kids that die or are harmed by the vaccine are not collateral damage either. This is why it's a decision to be made personally, by the one who will take the responsibility of the action.
Kids are not dying or being damaged by the HPV vaccine. They are dying and being damaged by HPV.
 
Old 02-04-2012, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,840,981 times
Reputation: 14681
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Is this really about you needing us to care? What would your experience count for exactly?
Nobody on here has a lack of compassion for someone who was ill, we all care but people who die from a vaccine or get seriously hurt don't even have acknowledgment that it could be caused by the vaccine. There is nobody to sue, see or talk to about it. The drug company won't pay for a funeral, hospital costs, not a damn thing. You can try and sue but......well you laughed at me when I even considered paying attention to those silly people.

Imagine if you got your healthy happy kid a shot for something that you aren't even sure will work and they were dead a week later? With no cause attached. Just imagine the guilt, how could you continue living with that? And you knew before that shot that she was a happy, healthy kid? Give parents a break a minute will ya. It's a very hard decision to make.

You aren't the poster child for the hpv vaccine. There can't be one yet, nobody knows if the lack of these 4 types of hpv will reduce the number of cervical cancer cases down the road. Or if this shot will really prevent hpv or how long it will if it does. And, let's not forget that viruses change to live. This shot could possibly make a more potent form of hpv come about, one that is more effective in giving you cervical cancer. Without knowing this yet how hard a decision do you think this should be for a parent? No biggy? I mean are you really saying "look at me" "I'm why you should get the shot?" If you are you are willing to take a lot of responsibility on for other peoples kids that I'm not willing to do.

It doesn't mean people don't wish you could have prevented it. People like me just don't know if it's worth their kid getting hurt or killed right now by taking a leap of faith that this shot will cure anything.

I think people would care if my kid died, feel bad for me, but they wouldn't accept them being poster children for not getting it. If I came back and said my kids were hurt or killed after this shot I'm sure you would all say that it was my imagination. I have no illusions about that but I don't think they would excuse it for collateral damage. That's ridiculous assumption. I hope you are smart enough and don't take that comment seriously.

Everyone has sympathy for anyone who has suffered from any serious illness. Including people who aren't sure they will get the vaccine for their kids. Let's not cloud the thread with it.
You are missing an essential piece of the puzzle here. Reported adverse reactions to vaccines are investigated. Those in the health care field have no desire to continue supporting a vaccine if it is proven to cause harm.

It's a very peculiar opinion that millions of health care workers around the world are all involved in a giant conspiracy to intentionally harm through vaccines, and only a handful of gurus with no direct domain knowledge know the "truth".
 
Old 02-04-2012, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,812,796 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiogirl22 View Post
So my experience doesn't count? Why don't I count? I'm damaged! No one seems to care. I guess I need a blog to make someone care...
You count among the statistics as do I. I'm in the 5% and the subset of the 5% who had an issue that was caught early enough to treat an cure. I'm there because, from the time I was 14, my mom made sure I had regular pap smears. I was in the habit of seeing my doctor regularly. It's a good thing. Had I skipped my pap smear at 19, I might not be here.

The fact remains that for the vast majority of people this virus will not cause an issue either because they won't get it or they will be able to fight it off. Of those who will have an issue, the vast majority are treatable if caught early during a routine pap smear. This is not a vaccination where herd immunity helps the entire community. It's an individual decision. IMO, there are too many risks of getting this vaccine for a minute possibility it might help years from now.

Even if my girls are destined to die of cervical cancer, how many more years will they have if they would be destined to die from the vaccine? I choose one less (make that two) teenaged girls dying or with neurological issues that suddenly appear after getting the vaccine and then we're supposed to believe there is no relationship between the vaccine and the onset of the issue or death.

What I find really funny is that I've used this same argument on three doctors and all three had the same response....dead silence and the issue was dropped. Not one of them tried to argue with me that this, particular, vaccine is worth the risk. The odds of having an issue because you contracted HPV are low and the transmission of HPV can be stopped other ways. This is NOT a vaccine like measles or mumps or polio where there is a high liklihood of serious issues if the herd is not vaccinated. This is a vaccine for a sexually transmitted virus that is of questionable efficacy. There are other ways to protect against sexually transmitted bugs that don't carry the risk of death or neurological issues.

The risk factors for cervical cancer are: A compromised immune system, age (occurs most frequently in women over 40) and having had multiple sexual partners. While almost all women who develop cervical cancer have HPV, most women who have HPV don't develop cervical cancer. This vaccine is NOT a cervical cancer vaccine!!! It's a vaccine for a virus that is believed to cause about 70% of cervical cancers BUT having the virus itself does not mean you'll get cervical cancer not does having the vaccine mean you won't. I, for one, am waiting for some longitudinal data on this one. In the meantime, I will teach my daughters that there are risks to sleeping around and that if they choose do do so anyway, they should protect themselves. What many are missing here is that the spread of HPV is preventable like any other STD.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-04-2012 at 04:42 AM..
 
Old 02-04-2012, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,812,796 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
You are missing an essential piece of the puzzle here. Reported adverse reactions to vaccines are investigated. Those in the health care field have no desire to continue supporting a vaccine if it is proven to cause harm.

It's a very peculiar opinion that millions of health care workers around the world are all involved in a giant conspiracy to intentionally harm through vaccines, and only a handful of gurus with no direct domain knowledge know the "truth".
Given the amount of money that has been sunk into this venture and the amount to be made, the jury is still out. It will be interesting to see if this vaccine is still being pushed when competition among manufactures drives the price down. Time will also tell if it actually works. Given that most cervical cancers occur in women over 40 and they are recommending vaccinating 12 year olds, the jury will be out for a few decades on this one. I feel like they have marketed this prematurely. That being the case, we're choosing to wait and see. Even if I'm wrong, the odds have it my dd's will suffer no ill effect from that decision. And who knows, at the rate that cancer treatments are being developed, they may cure cervical cancer before the 12 year olds in this experiment getting the shots today even reach 40.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-04-2012 at 04:40 AM..
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,582,254 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
You are missing an essential piece of the puzzle here. Reported adverse reactions to vaccines are investigated. Those in the health care field have no desire to continue supporting a vaccine if it is proven to cause harm.

It's a very peculiar opinion that millions of health care workers around the world are all involved in a giant conspiracy to intentionally harm through vaccines, and only a handful of gurus with no direct domain knowledge know the "truth".
Is that all you got out of this? I'll tell you this, a lot of people I know in the health care field are waiting before they get this vaccination as well.

All you have is "peculiar opinion" and accusations that I believe this vaccine is a "ridiculous conspiracy?"

I already went through why it's impossible to investigate vaccine deaths after the fact. You are telling me all those reports that plain old people who report to VAERS are investigated now? And after their investigation they said the shot had nothing to do with it, people are just paranoid conspiracy freaks? After you've already compared those complaints as "hear say" in your previous posts? You aren't serious are you?

The only association between the adverse event and vaccination is temporal, this means that the adverse event occurred sometime after vaccination. The adverse event may be coincidental or it may have been caused by vaccination, however they cannot make any conclusions that the events reported to VAERS were caused by the vaccine or if they were not caused by it. Do you not think if they could conclusively tell vaccine harm from other factors it wouldn't make this decision easier for parents?

Do you really write off all parents concern over this vaccine with your belief we all think the government is trying to control us with aliens they're shooting into our bodies, or that green men are making this shot to control the world? You just mock people into making a good decision?
I don't understand, how you can disregard parental concern, you really have no understanding, no idea of what a choice like this is like?

I can see why this is worth it to some parents. I can also see why it's not.

According to you it's worth it to get a shot I'm not confident with that protects around 5000 women a year from dying of cervical cancer in the United States and it's just ridiculous of me to you to think anyone in the medical community would ignore anything that causes harm when over 100,000 people die yearly from in-hospital medical errors?

I'd say your reasoning is faulty. You obviously are justifying why you got the shot for your kids, I understand, but that's just very human of you, assuming I'm part of the conspiracy crowd for waiting on it is a real stretch though. Nice try but I'm still not getting anything out of you that convinces me not to wait. Green alien name calling isn't persuasive enough for me.

Being pro vaccines is the same as being anti vaccine. Extremist are just cause driven. I'm not an extremist, just a regular old parent. My kids have had some vaccines, the ones I deem worth it.
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,840,981 times
Reputation: 14681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The fact remains that for the vast majority of people this virus will not cause an issue either because they won't get it or they will be able to fight it off. Of those who will have an issue, the vast majority are treatable if caught early during a routine pap smear.
How do you know what the outcome will be for a person infected with HPV. You are making a lot of assumptions, there is no way to predict the outcome of disease for each individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The risk factors for cervical cancer are: A compromised immune system, age (occurs most frequently in women over 40) and having had multiple sexual partners. While almost all women who develop cervical cancer have HPV, most women who have HPV don't develop cervical cancer. This vaccine is NOT a cervical cancer vaccine!!! It's a vaccine for a virus that is believed to cause about 70% of cervical cancers BUT having the virus itself does not mean you'll get cervical cancer not does having the vaccine mean you won't. I, for one, am waiting for some longitudinal data on this one. In the meantime, I will teach my daughters that there are risks to sleeping around and that if they choose do do so anyway, they should protect themselves.
Every year 5.5 million people are diagnosed with HPV. An estimated 24 million are undiagnosed. Every year over 12,000 women in the United States are diagnosed with cervical cancer. Every year in the US over 4,000 women die from cervical cancer. Even if every single death entered in VAERS is caused by the vaccine (which we know it is not true) I just don't get how, using statistics, you are justifying your decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
What many are missing here is that the spread of HPV is preventable like any other STD.
There are only 2 ways to prevent the spread of HPV - the vaccine or abstinence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Time will also tell if it actually works. Given that most cervical cancers occur in women over 40 and they are recommending vaccinating 12 year olds, the jury will be out for a few decades on this one. I feel like they have marketed this prematurely. That being the case, we're choosing to wait and see. Even if I'm wrong, the odds have it my dd's will suffer no ill effect from that decision. And who knows, at the rate that cancer treatments are being developed, they may cure cervical cancer before the 12 year olds in this experiment getting the shots today even reach 40.
Wow, just wow!
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