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Old 02-04-2012, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,052 posts, read 99,018,950 times
Reputation: 31544

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
You count among the statistics as do I. I'm in the 5% and the subset of the 5% who had an issue that was caught early enough to treat an cure. I'm there because, from the time I was 14, my mom made sure I had regular pap smears. I was in the habit of seeing my doctor regularly. It's a good thing. Had I skipped my pap smear at 19, I might not be here.

The fact remains that for the vast majority of people this virus will not cause an issue either because they won't get it or they will be able to fight it off. Of those who will have an issue, the vast majority are treatable if caught early during a routine pap smear. This is not a vaccination where herd immunity helps the entire community. It's an individual decision. IMO, there are too many risks of getting this vaccine for a minute possibility it might help years from now.

Even if my girls are destined to die of cervical cancer, how many more years will they have if they would be destined to die from the vaccine? I choose one less (make that two) teenaged girls dying or with neurological issues that suddenly appear after getting the vaccine and then we're supposed to believe there is no relationship between the vaccine and the onset of the issue or death.

What I find really funny is that I've used this same argument on three doctors and all three had the same response....dead silence and the issue was dropped. Not one of them tried to argue with me that this, particular, vaccine is worth the risk. The odds of having an issue because you contracted HPV are low and the transmission of HPV can be stopped other ways. This is NOT a vaccine like measles or mumps or polio where there is a high liklihood of serious issues if the herd is not vaccinated. This is a vaccine for a sexually transmitted virus that is of questionable efficacy. There are other ways to protect against sexually transmitted bugs that don't carry the risk of death or neurological issues.

The risk factors for cervical cancer are: A compromised immune system, age (occurs most frequently in women over 40) and having had multiple sexual partners. While almost all women who develop cervical cancer have HPV, most women who have HPV don't develop cervical cancer. This vaccine is NOT a cervical cancer vaccine!!! It's a vaccine for a virus that is believed to cause about 70% of cervical cancers BUT having the virus itself does not mean you'll get cervical cancer not does having the vaccine mean you won't. I, for one, am waiting for some longitudinal data on this one. In the meantime, I will teach my daughters that there are risks to sleeping around and that if they choose do do so anyway, they should protect themselves. What many are missing here is that the spread of HPV is preventable like any other STD.
On and on and on it goes. No one in the anti-vax crowd was willing to look up polio. Here are some stats:

Of people who contract polio, 1 in 200 become paralyzed. Of these, 5% to 10% die when their breathing muscles become paralyzed. Put it this way, out of 10000 cases, 50 become paralyzed. Of those, 2 to 5 die. As you said above: "The fact remains that for the vast majority of people this virus will not cause an issue either because they won't get it or they will be able to fight it off." Why all this fuss then? We know why. No one wants this to happen to their kid.

It is untrue that no one has argued with you that this vaccine isn't worth the risk. Several of us have argued so. The deaths following this vaccine do not appear to be related to the vaccine. I personally have given hundreds of HPV shots and our practice has given thousands. We have not had one person have any more of an adverse reaction than fainting. Zimbochick is correct. Health professionals would not be using this vaccine if it were proven dangerous. My own daughters have had the vaccine, all three shots, with no adverse effects.

WHO | Poliomyelitis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Given the amount of money that has been sunk into this venture and the amount to be made, the jury is still out. It will be interesting to see if this vaccine is still being pushed when competition among manufactures drives the price down. Time will also tell if it actually works. Given that most cervical cancers occur in women over 40 and they are recommending vaccinating 12 year olds, the jury will be out for a few decades on this one. I feel like they have marketed this prematurely. That being the case, we're choosing to wait and see. Even if I'm wrong, the odds have it my dd's will suffer no ill effect from that decision. And who knows, at the rate that cancer treatments are being developed, they may cure cervical cancer before the 12 year olds in this experiment getting the shots today even reach 40.
You might "feel" the vaccine was marketed prematurely, but that doesn't mean it was. You have no idea how vaccine sales work if you think that increased competition will drive down prices. I doubt "they" will cure cervical cancer in 28 years. What would a "cure" be, in your opinion?

 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,569,089 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Kids are not dying or being damaged by the HPV vaccine. They are dying and being damaged by HPV.
Really? Their are kids dying around the world of hpv virus? I thought that was just swine flu?
I thought the average age for cervical cancer was over 40yrs old? I also thought around 90% of it was curable if caught early, and around 70% if it isn't.
I must be off my rocker this morning.
Guess what, no kids die of cervical cancer caused by hpv but over 30 of them have died soon after getting the shot for it this year.

Last edited by PoppySead; 02-04-2012 at 08:46 AM..
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:39 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,259,307 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I thought the average age for cervical cancer was over 40yrs old? I also thought around 90% of it was curable if caught early, and around 70% if it isn't.
I have always been a big fan of the expression an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And DAMN but I don't want to be that 10% for whom it is not curable.
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:39 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,445 posts, read 15,130,331 times
Reputation: 20945
Since the title of the thread is will you get your 'sons' the vaccine ~ can someone please tell me how this vaccine benefits my son? So far, all I've seen is how it will benefit the girls.

His doctor has not mentioned it (he's 16) so perhaps we are past the point; I don't know. I've always given him the vaccinations required and/or recommended by his physician.

I wonder why his physician has not even mentioned it? Is there a benefit to him to have the shot?

I'm not trying to be flip about it; I just really don't know.
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,817,556 times
Reputation: 14681
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I already went through why it's impossible to investigate vaccine deaths after the fact. You are telling me all those reports that plain old people who report to VAERS are investigated now? And after their investigation they said the shot had nothing to do with it, people are just paranoid conspiracy freaks? After you've already compared those complaints as "hear say" in your previous posts? You aren't serious are you?
Reports are investigated. Results are not published on VAERS. I did not say complaints are "hear say", the FDA report did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
The only association between the adverse event and vaccination is temporal, this means that the adverse event occurred sometime after vaccination. The adverse event may be coincidental or it may have been caused by vaccination, however they cannot make any conclusions that the events reported to VAERS were caused by the vaccine or if they were not caused by it. Do you not think if they could conclusively tell vaccine harm from other factors it wouldn't make this decision easier for parents?

Do you really write off all parents concern over this vaccine with your belief we all think the government is trying to control us with aliens they're shooting into our bodies, or that green men are making this shot to control the world? You just mock people into making a good decision?
I don't understand, how you can disregard parental concern, you really have no understanding, no idea of what a choice like this is like?

I can see why this is worth it to some parents. I can also see why it's not.

According to you it's worth it to get a shot I'm not confident with that protects around 5000 women a year from dying of cervical cancer in the United States and it's just ridiculous of me to you to think anyone in the medical community would ignore anything that causes harm when over 100,000 people die yearly from in-hospital medical errors?

I'd say your reasoning is faulty. You obviously are justifying why you got the shot for your kids, I understand, but that's just very human of you, assuming I'm part of the conspiracy crowd for waiting on it is a real stretch though. Nice try but I'm still not getting anything out of you that convinces me not to wait. Green alien name calling isn't persuasive enough for me.

Being pro vaccines is the same as being anti vaccine. Extremist are just cause driven. I'm not an extremist, just a regular old parent. My kids have had some vaccines, the ones I deem worth it.
I am not disregarding or "writing off" anyones opinions on this. If people tell me they have studied all the facts and are making a decision based on Tenpenny or Mercola, I am going to correct the myths for a variety of reasons. They are making a decision that impacts not only their child's life, but that of others in the community. I think some of these "experts" do real harm. And most importantly there is a lot of legitimate information out there, regardless of what a parent ultimately chooses to do, and I would hope people use that legitimate information to make a truly informed decision.

The rest of your post is filled with personal insults which I have no desire to respond to.
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:43 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,259,307 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Since the title of the thread is will you get your 'sons' the vaccine ~ can someone please tell me how this vaccine benefits my son? So far, all I've seen is how it will benefit the girls.
As far as I know, there is none. My OB's line was that HPV is not an equal opportunity virus. It does no harm to boys and men. But vaccines are good at eradicating entire populations of viruses. Even so, some day your son will fall in love with some charming and lovely young woman who will care for him for the rest of his life. The last thing he probably wants to do is give her HPV.
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,052 posts, read 99,018,950 times
Reputation: 31544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Since the title of the thread is will you get your 'sons' the vaccine ~ can someone please tell me how this vaccine benefits my son? So far, all I've seen is how it will benefit the girls.

His doctor has not mentioned it (he's 16) so perhaps we are past the point; I don't know. I've always given him the vaccinations required and/or recommended by his physician.

I wonder why his physician has not even mentioned it? Is there a benefit to him to have the shot?

I'm not trying to be flip about it; I just really don't know.
The gardasil vaccine offers protection from gential warts in males, also from oral cancer.

It has just recently been recommended for boys; it has long been approved for boys. That is a difference in vaccine terminology. Once a vaccine is recommended, insurance will pay for it (usually). It's possible he hasn't been to the dr. since that recommendation was made.

Your son is not too old. He can get it up until age 26.

STD Facts - HPV and Men
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:49 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,259,307 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The gardasil vaccine offers protection from gential warts in males, also from oral cancer.
I did not know that. I appreciate that information!
 
Old 02-04-2012, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,817,556 times
Reputation: 14681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Since the title of the thread is will you get your 'sons' the vaccine ~ can someone please tell me how this vaccine benefits my son? So far, all I've seen is how it will benefit the girls.

His doctor has not mentioned it (he's 16) so perhaps we are past the point; I don't know. I've always given him the vaccinations required and/or recommended by his physician.

I wonder why his physician has not even mentioned it? Is there a benefit to him to have the shot?

I'm not trying to be flip about it; I just really don't know.
Here are 2 more informative articles on boys and the HPV vaccine:

Science-Based Medicine HPV Vaccine for Boys

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/he...26vaccine.html
 
Old 02-04-2012, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,581 posts, read 26,233,109 times
Reputation: 26643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Since the title of the thread is will you get your 'sons' the vaccine ~ can someone please tell me how this vaccine benefits my son? So far, all I've seen is how it will benefit the girls.

His doctor has not mentioned it (he's 16) so perhaps we are past the point; I don't know. I've always given him the vaccinations required and/or recommended by his physician.

I wonder why his physician has not even mentioned it? Is there a benefit to him to have the shot?

I'm not trying to be flip about it; I just really don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
As far as I know, there is none. My OB's line was that HPV is not an equal opportunity virus. It does no harm to boys and men. But vaccines are good at eradicating entire populations of viruses. Even so, some day your son will fall in love with some charming and lovely young woman who will care for him for the rest of his life. The last thing he probably wants to do is give her HPV.
Edited to add: Just saw Kat's post.

The vaccine also protects against cancer of the penile skin and anal cancer.

Men get warts, too. They may not kill, but they are uncomfortable and do not always go away without treatment. Treatment is painful.

Ringo, at age 16, I would probably go ahead and give it. He is old enough that you could send him in for a private conversation with his doctor and have him tell you what he would like to do.
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