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Old 02-09-2012, 07:13 PM
 
11,137 posts, read 9,114,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic 2.0 View Post
Dude! Baby steps! You can't just say stuff like that in front of these people... Ugh, that's okay. I'll do damage control.

Everyone, somebodynew didn't mean it. It was just a joke. We all know the parent has to be the boss

i used the word "boss" instead of "authority figure" so people would understand...
lol!
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
1,144 posts, read 1,737,214 times
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i was spanked as a child and the last thing i am is agressive - i only need to be spanked a couple of times 2 or 3 at which point i determined my parents were the boss and what they said was law - im sorry to say there is no rationalizing with a child that is having a temper tantrum and while you are busy playing dr spock everyone around you is being distrubed by your child's behavior -
this in no way implies you should beat the child or use anything such as a belt - it means to use an open hand on their bottom LIGHTLY -
i am 60 years old and as i have aged i have noticed that children's behavior has become progressively worse over the years - their attitude is one of entitlement, they have no respect for their peers or adults and i could continue to list their short comings - however, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how to raise their children but the proof is in the pudding and i dont think its a pretty picture -
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:34 PM
 
11,612 posts, read 19,564,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
That the one may be one facet of the other is possibly debatable. Equality? No.
Yes this is true. Punishment is certainly a tool that can be used to teach but punishment itself does not equate to teaching. Sometimes punishment is just punishment. Punishment is important but not the be all and end all of discipline.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:15 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,901,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ1252 View Post
i was spanked as a child and the last thing i am is agressive - i only need to be spanked a couple of times 2 or 3 at which point i determined my parents were the boss and what they said was law - im sorry to say there is no rationalizing with a child that is having a temper tantrum and while you are busy playing dr spock everyone around you is being distrubed by your child's behavior -
Might I suggest that it wasn't the spankings, but just the fact that you were disciplined for your actions, that made you realize you couldn't get away with acting out? I firmly believe that the consistency of discipline (in addition to the promotion of GOOD behavior) is what makes a child well-behaved, not the method.

And you are very right when it comes to rationalizing with a child. It can't be done when a child is throwing a fit. But it can be done before and after, and before the parent feels the urge to throw one of their own. While I know that many parents don't do this, the risk is there for spanking to become a means of releasing frustration rather than a concentrated effort on correcting some misdeed on their child's part.

You mentioned people being disrupted by a child's tantrum. If your point here is that parents shouldn't just ignore a tantrum in public, I agree. But I should think spanking your kid in public would only further disrupt them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ1252 View Post
this in no way implies you should beat the child or use anything such as a belt - it means to use an open hand on their bottom LIGHTLY -
Even some pro-spanking parents are probably saying "Huh??" to that. Getting their attention is the objective. I don't see what that's supposed to accomplish that a stern face-to-face, grabbing their little hands, and giving a firm "NO" wouldn't at least be AS effective at accomplishing.

IMPORTANT (for anyone currently raising a toddler/young child): Once you get a young child's mind off the tantrum (aka that very second after you say "NO"), you can actually redirect their focus. It just takes practice, is all. If you're in a public place, get their attention in the way I described and then point at something in the store or restaurant, using a friendly voice to capture their interest. Give them something to play with. Sometimes, kids are just plain bored, and you shouldn't expect them to do something you wouldn't be willing to do (e.g., sitting quietly while everyone around you talks about stuff you're not interested in).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ1252 View Post
i am 60 years old and as i have aged i have noticed that children's behavior has become progressively worse over the years - their attitude is one of entitlement, they have no respect for their peers or adults and i could continue to list their short comings - however, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how to raise their children but the proof is in the pudding and i dont think its a pretty picture -
No reasonable person would disagree with you that kids are worse off in SOME ways. I do agree that they seem more disrespectul than when I was a kid (and I'm only approaching 30). You know what I would blame it on, though? Not the absence of spanking. But the absence of time and effort spent on parenting. Parents are more often too busy which, ironically, lends itself to spanking more than the alternatives that I and others are suggesting here.
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:48 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,748,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
No reasonable person would disagree with you that kids are worse off in SOME ways. I do agree that they seem more disrespectul than when I was a kid (and I'm only approaching 30). You know what I would blame it on, though? Not the absence of spanking. But the absence of time and effort spent on parenting. Parents are more often too busy which, ironically, lends itself to spanking more than the alternatives that I and others are suggesting here.
My daughter is in therapy (for a number of early life adoption issues). The therapist made an observation about today's kids and respect. You are probably right in a way about parents and time and effort. Parents are very busy, we have texting, tweeting and all sorts of other social media to get kids in trouble, many parents just don't seem engaged and kids just seem really distracted in so many ways. We went out to a dinner at the Outback Steakhouse and I watched a mom and her 11ish year old daughter on their phones or texting the whole time. About two words were said the entire meal to one another. I found it quite sad but a trend I see more and more. My wonderful friend made a comment that when she goes out with her son and DIL, much time is spent texting, even while at the table having a meal together. Conversation is fragmented and people just seem distracted and constantly multitasking with silly stuff. Are we also raising a generation of social morons who have lost the ability to communicate? Although I'm a believer in technology, I really feel that it has fragmented us in a way.

But I digress since my last comment wasn't really spanking related. The therapist also had an observation that with today's anti-corporal trend in any form, she has been observing that kids have become increasingly disrespectful towards parents and authority figures. Her opinion is that this generation of parenting has veered towards another extreme that isn't working and it will take another generation to find some in between balance. I thought that it was a pretty interesting comment. All of this came up when I told her that I was trying to refrain from any corporal punishment in our house although I've used it in the past and very sparingly. She has been in the field for a good number of years and deals mostly with families and kids (our Middle School found her for us and she was highly recommended). This isn't a dig towards either side in this debate. Just something she mentioned and I thought was interesting.

Last edited by Siggy20; 02-10-2012 at 06:18 AM..
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,204,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
But I digress since my last comment wasn't really spanking related. The therapist also had an observation that with today's anti-corporal trend in any form, she has been observing that kids have become increasingly disrespectful towards parents and authority figures. Her opinion is that this generation of parenting has veered towards another extreme that isn't working and it will take another generation to find some in between balance. I thought that it was a pretty interesting comment. All of this came up when I told her that I was trying to refrain from any corporal punishment in our house although I've used it in the past and very sparingly. She has been in the field for a good number of years and deals mostly with families and kids (our Middle School found her for us and she was highly recommended).
I've said it before and I'll say it again: IME, a lot of behavioral interventions are misunderstood and misused by parents. They were never intended to have anything to do with being permissive. When used properly, they have a powerful effect on shaping appropriate behavior. As for the societal pendulum swinging from overly fear-based discipline to overly permissive discipline, I believe there is a middle ground where a lot of people parent from even now (whether spanking is a tool in the toolbox or not). Perhaps societal trends as a whole need to swing towards a middle ground, but there are a lot of parents who are already there, IMO. Even on this thread, a large number of posters seem to agree on what needs to be taught, even if there is disagreement over the method of teaching.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:44 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,748,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again: IME, a lot of behavioral interventions are misunderstood and misused by parents. They were never intended to have anything to do with being permissive. When used properly, they have a powerful effect on shaping appropriate behavior. As for the societal pendulum swinging from overly fear-based discipline to overly permissive discipline, I believe there is a middle ground where a lot of people parent from even now (whether spanking is a tool in the toolbox or not). Perhaps societal trends as a whole need to swing towards a middle ground, but there are a lot of parents who are already there, IMO. Even on this thread, a large number of posters seem to agree on what needs to be taught, even if there is disagreement over the method of teaching.
I'm not sure if I understand what you said in the first part of your statement in regards to behavioral interventions but I do generally agree with you. I think that parents are probably reaching that middle ground somewhere. As much as we debate on these boards, I would suspect that most of us agree on the big picture of parenting.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:49 AM
 
11,137 posts, read 9,114,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
But I digress since my last comment wasn't really spanking related. The therapist also had an observation that with today's anti-corporal trend in any form, she has been observing that kids have become increasingly disrespectful towards parents and authority figures. Her opinion is that this generation of parenting has veered towards another extreme that isn't working and it will take another generation to find some in between balance.
You have more faith than I. I think the pendulum will just keep swinging from extreme to extreme.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:00 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,748,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
You have more faith than I. I think the pendulum will just keep swinging from extreme to extreme.
I'm not sure. My husband was raised in a fear based discipline environment, one that we would never raise our kids in. He was extremely respectful towards his parents because he was extremely afraid of his dad (nothing like being hurled across the room almost breaking an arm as a pre-teen). Or being spanked with a belt. His household was the extreme. I respected my parents greatly. I was spanked on occasion but very rarely (probably a handful of times in my life). My mom was a no nonsense woman who would pinch my little ear gently if I was acting up in a public place and take me quietly outside for a stern talking to. I knew who was boss. Very different parenting styles. My husband is much closer to my father who was very stern but such a different personality to his dad.

I'm not sure if society would ever go back to a fear based form of discipline. I guess that I have faith that we've evolved a bit more and that middle ground is being reached or will be reached. My biggest fear is technology and how it has deadened social interactions and that saddens me but as I said before, that is a different subject from spanking.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:04 AM
 
11,137 posts, read 9,114,854 times
Reputation: 14456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
I'm not sure if society would ever go back to a fear based form of discipline. I guess that I have faith that we've evolved a bit more and that middle ground is being reached or will be reached. My biggest fear is technology and how it has deadened social interactions and that saddens me but as I said before, that is a different subject from spanking.
"Society" is not a homogenous group. Here in the north, you are much more likely to see permissiveness and misbehaved kids. In the bible belt, you are much more likely to see fear and shame parenting, IMO.
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