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Old 02-10-2012, 10:33 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,231,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
The home we have raised our children in is located within about one-half a mile of a creek that is usually only a trickle nine months of the year. In the spring, its a different story. During run off, the creek could carry a child away and drown them. My experience is also that there is something fascinating about running water and many kids are drawn to it. In short, my son was told to stay away from that stream and he was told he would be spanked with his pants pulled down if he broke that rule. He broke it and that consequence followed. He never broke the rule again. Anti-spankers will probably jump in and say something to the effect that we could have kept our son under lock and key during this time period. I could have avoided letting him go out of the house at all I suppose. My answer is that its pretty hard to keep an eight year old boy indoors for two or three months. Also, doing that would have kept him from enjoying other social opportunities with other kids in the area. Perhaps, others would suggest I could have taken the child to talk to paramedics or a hospital emergency room worker to talk about the dangers of drowning. My answer to that is that I did---after he got spanked.
In my view, that is a short term/single issue fix to a larger problem. You have solved the problem of the creek. You have not solved the problem of the fact that your child at that time was not responsible enough to be outside playing in the neighborhood unsupervised. It is not a matter of keeping him under lock and key. It is a matter that that child at that time is not responsible enough to have the freedom of the neighborhood without supervision.

While you *might* have stopped him from going to the creek, what other dangers is he exposed to? Fire with the underbrush? (Ask me how I know!) There are many hazards in the world. And UNTIL you DEMONSTRATE responsibility to handle them, you will not be given the freedom to be exposed to them.

You can still allow him to play in the yard while you supervise from the window.

I remember having this conversation with my son. He was ya butting the heck out of me. Yah but I can swim. Yah but I won't get caught in the current. Yah but I would just grab a tree. I said sorry dude, you don't get it. Until you can get that that river can KILL you, you stay in the yard where I can see you.


Quote:
Parenting is not a science and no two kids are the same. I think stating any rule (spanking is never acceptable) as an absolute is a mistake. The problem with parenting like so many things in life is that there are always going to be exceptions to rules. The kid may be different than the average kid. The behavior may be exceptionally dangerous behavior. I think focusing on "goals" is more important than focusing on a hard and fast rule. In my son's situation that day, that time, I felt spanking was absolutely the right thing to do.
The goal IS the more important thing. And different actions will support different goals.

The body of water story is timely in a funny sort of way. I too got spanked for going to the river. I just made sure my father never caught me at it again.

I don't want my kid to obey out of fear that they are gonna get caught. I want them to not die in the river.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:48 AM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
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The only time I could see spanking a kid for getting too close to something dangerous is when they're a toddler and you want them to associate the dangerous object with danger itself. Even then, however, it's the sudden shock and fear that makes this association, not necessarily physical contact or pain. You can do this with a raised voice (assuming you don't typically raise your voice at your toddler for minor misadventures).

Desensitization is another concept we can keep in mind. Some parents yell EVERYTHING to or around their child (or they may just live/frequent a place where it's loud), then they wonder why the firm voice people like me suggest or some other method similar in intensity has little effect. They may turn to me and say "See? He ignores it", to which I reply, "Deafness begets ignoring, my friend"
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:07 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,231,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
The only time I could see spanking a kid for getting too close to something dangerous is when they're a toddler and you want them to associate the dangerous object with danger itself. Even then, however, it's the sudden shock and fear that makes this association,
Except that it would make the shock and fear association with YOU not the danger.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,220 posts, read 49,768,169 times
Reputation: 66976
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
Vitals - Spanking linked to more aggression in kids

I doubt this will change the mind of those who still swear they believe everything wrong with our kids today is because they aren't spanked. Many of us have found wonderful ways to discipline our kids without hitting them. Yes it take work and patience but those are the least of the requirements to be good parents.
Sheesh. The 'non-spanking' has been around for what...20 years? The spanking for CENTURIES before that. And just coincidentally we now have the biggest group of self-absorbed, undisciplined dbags wandering the planet...yeah...
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Sheesh. The 'non-spanking' has been around for what...20 years? The spanking for CENTURIES before that. And just coincidentally we now have the biggest group of self-absorbed, undisciplined dbags wandering the planet...yeah...
If you're going to talk correlation, explain to me why violent crime has been declining since the 1990s. Timeouts were introduced in, what, the 1960s or 70s? Do the math. One young adult's lifetime later, violent crime declines.

A crime puzzle: Violent crime declines in America « The Berkeley Blog

http://faculty.unlv.edu/mccorkle/Dec...20in%2090s.pdf

I'm not saying timeouts are the reason for the decline. Just wanted to play the same game you're playing.

It's CONSISTENCY of discipline, not the method, that determines how well-behaved a child is. Children are self-absorbed and undisciplined today because parents have become much more busy and preoccupied with other endeavors than ever before. That's my contention, anyway.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:45 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,764,767 times
Reputation: 3110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Here *holds up a mirror* Say that again.
The mirror reflects right back at you buddy in an even harsher light. At least I try to see some middle ground and TRY to discuss things in a positive manner relating my personal experiences. I may not succeed everytime but I try. I don't think that I ever have criticised folks that do time outs either. I use them too, along with long talks with both of my kids. I talk to them quite a bit, everyday. I guess that I'm respectful of all types of parenting styles. If the kids are happy, healthy and well adjusted, kudos to you for having a great approach.

I had to chime in on that last post of yours though---bonding and exercise along with parenting advice. You should really write a book since you dispense copious amounts of advice.

Oh well, I tried.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:48 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,231,004 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Sheesh. The 'non-spanking' has been around for what...20 years? The spanking for CENTURIES before that.
Slavery has been around for centuries as well. Should we continue with that?


Quote:
And just coincidentally we now have the biggest group of self-absorbed, undisciplined dbags wandering the planet...yeah...

Another person who doesn't read.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:53 AM
 
12,914 posts, read 19,792,997 times
Reputation: 33925
This study was regarding aggression. Another one shows lower IQ in children who are spanked. Either result would cause me concern if that was the method of discipline we used (but we didn't).

Children who are spanked have lower IQs, new research finds

The possibility of inadvertently causing long-lasting harm should be weighed.
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:03 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,231,004 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post

Here *holds up a mirror* Say that again.
You don't advance your cause of reasoned understanding if you resort to methods that are otherwise.
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: New York City
2,814 posts, read 5,857,192 times
Reputation: 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
This study was regarding aggression. Another one shows lower IQ in children who are spanked. Either result would cause me concern if that was the method of discipline we used (but we didn't).

Children who are spanked have lower IQs, new research finds

The possibility of inadvertently causing long-lasting harm should be weighed.
I don't believe that spanking causes a lower IQ, rather parents who spank have lower IQs, and as a result their gene pool is passed down.
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