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Old 02-11-2012, 05:59 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,932 times
Reputation: 2524

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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Did you READ any of the posts in this thread? If there was a post such as that it was the wild minority such that I completely missed it.
When did I write anything about a wild minority? In this case maybe you simply read to much into it. Take care.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:20 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
What, like pro-spankers never say "Timeouts? These parents always let their kids get away with everything"?


No, I for one am acknowledging not all parents who spank beat their kids or go "too far" with it. I am still saying it's far from the best way to discipline.
Spanking to me is one of many tools in the discipline spectrum. At times spanking can be the most appropriate tool to use. However, in the overall scheme I believe it may be the least desirable as far as I am concerned. I am simply saying I do not rule it out as an option.


Would you rather we assume you DO know better, but you just choose what we see as the lesser method? That would make you just plain wrong instead of ignorant...
Now, now. Assume I do better? Why ask that question? It seems you know took what I wrote personal instead of simply taking it as a disagreement whether spanking is an accepted method also.
You know what has been said about the word ASSUME, correct? In this case I am not assuming anything, just express and opinion and observation.


So they will learn an untruth. And what do you say to the equally logical argument that kids might learn to hit whenever they see something they don't like? That kids might learn to hit instead of talk to solve their problems in general, especially since hitting comes easier and more naturally than rationalizing?
I will expand to the commnet I made and you replied above. Children at times may learn, by spanking, that in life there are physical consequences for certain behavior. When they are adults they may have a much harder time to deal with an police officer that orders them to do something, what a judge tells them, etc.
Also, children can learn the physical force is an option, not the only option and it has been spinned.
I remember when I attended the Citizens Police Academy course in my city of an example the officer cited when he attended to a call. He encountered a case where a 15 year old called the police to and asked the officer to take the mother away because she slapped her. The officer got the mother her side of the story. The mother said she slapped the daughter because she wanted to go out and the mother did not give permission. She daughter cursed and screamed and did not want to obey and was being disrespectful so she slapped her as the parent enforcing discipline and respect to the parent. The officer ask the daughter if what happend was true, the daughter said yes. The officer turned to the mother and said she can slapped her again if necessary because the state law respects the parent the right to use the necessary force to enforce discipline and respect. The daughter's jaw dropped. What are the odds that the daughter learned a lesson that people need to respect authority? To me there was such possibility. There is the potential that if children learn to get away with acting to some extremes without consequences later in life they can have a harder time to accept harsh measures when facing other forms of authority when they are adults.

Finally, I'm just going to post this next quote of yours. I feel that's all I need to do...
Thanks for posting it. At times stern measures do work when used at the right time and circumstance.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
At times spanking can be the most appropriate tool to use. However, in the overall scheme I believe it may be the least desirable as far as I am concerned. I am simply saying I do not rule it out as an option.
I disagree with the first sentence, agree with the second, and say "fair enough" to the third.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I will expand to the commnet I made and you replied above. Children at times may learn, by spanking, that in life there are physical consequences for certain behavior. When they are adults they may have a much harder time to deal with an police officer that orders them to do something, what a judge tells them, etc.
What do these things have to do with physical consequences? And what does it matter that the consequences are PHYSICAL? Teaching kids that there are negative consequences for bad behavior is enough.

And that a police officer or the law he was representing said it was "Ok" for a woman to slap her daughter means less than nothing to me. But you don't exactly make a strong case for corporal punishment, as you describe this particular household. Will being slapped make the daughter respect her mom more? Will it bring about positive change? Not likely. A few more slaps and it's just as probable the daughter will simply run away, or start hitting back.
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
I disagree with the first sentence, agree with the second, and say "fair enough" to the third.




What do these things have to do with physical consequences? And what does it matter that the consequences are PHYSICAL? Teaching kids that there are negative consequences for bad behavior is enough.
Teaching can be a spanking. It can impact on a child to learn of consequences.

And that a police officer or the law he was representing said it was "Ok" for a woman to slap her daughter means less than nothing to me. But you don't exactly make a strong case for corporal punishment, as you describe this particular household. Will being slapped make the daughter respect her mom more? Will it bring about positive change? Not likely. A few more slaps and it's just as probable the daughter will simply run away, or start hitting back.
Of course it did not make a strong case of corporal punishment since you do not agree with it. I cited the example and made a comment of the potential results of the daughter learning there are times the consequences of her behavior and the support of the law. Not good enough with you? A difference of opinion that in reality to me is difficult to prove right either way. To me both sides do have valid points. Take care.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:58 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Teaching can be a spanking. It can impact on a child to learn of consequences.
Of course. But ANYTHING could result in learning. Doesn't make something okay. What I was asking is what physical discipline has to do with obeying a police officer or a judge. As adults, we don't typically fear being beaten when we obey a law. We understand the consequences are much more likely to be fines, jailtime, or a temporary loss of privileges. This is one of many reasons spanking is considered less than ideal, because it doesn't gel with the system of punishment most often used on adults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Of course it did not make a strong case of corporal punishment since you do not agree with it. I cited the example and made a comment of the potential results of the daughter learning there are times the consequences of her behavior and the support of the law. Not good enough with you?
Not at all. This didn't make a strong case for corporal punishment, because it seems to confirm the stereotype of parents who use physical "discipline" raising even more unruly children. In this case, a mother who believes in corporal punishment produces a 15-year old who cusses and screams at her parents because she can't go out late at night.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:05 PM
 
15,287 posts, read 16,839,007 times
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Here's an interesting real time study of spanking:

The First Real-Time Study of Parents Spanking Their Kids | Healthland | TIME.com

Quote:
Holden’s recordings provide rich context for what causes a parent to spank. The data are particularly unsettling because many of the infractions that led a mom to hit involve petty misbehavior, like turning the page in a book before it was time. While listening to his mother read The Tortoise and the Hare, for example, one boy began touching the pages, garnering a slap.

“At 2:03:31, the mother says, ‘No, Justin,’ and continues reading,” according to a transcription describing the incident. “Then at 2:03:34 she smacks him, and says, ‘No, Justin. If you want me to read, quit messing with the pages. Cause you’re moving it while I’m reading.’”

The parents who recorded themselves represented a socioeconomic mix: a third each were low-income, middle-income and upper-middle-class or higher. Most were white; about a third were African-American.

Researchers broke down the data, detailing each spanking or slapping incident, what led up to it, what type of punishment was used and how much, how a child reacted immediately and then several minutes later.
What is interesting is that so many here believe that it's non-spanking parents who are bringing up undisciplined children. In this study, quite a lot of the parents did spank despite it not being PC to admit it. So perhaps kids are still being spanked in many households.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:51 AM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,945,550 times
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2:03:31, 2:03:34

That is 3 seconds apart. It's VERY obvious the slapping didn't work in that case. This boy's probably used to it, thinks it's a game, which may just prompt the parent to attempt to cause more pain as they go along.

Here's what I do with my son when he tries to grab the keyboard when I'm reading to him:

LET him! He's trying to learn; isn't that the point? So what if he doesn't learn what happened to Peter the Rabbit right away; sometimes, you have to use their own natural interests to teach. So what we do, is transition from a lesson off of Wikipedia to a lesson in the alphabet or numbers on the keyboard. The mom in this story might just find that if she lets him move the page, and then points to whatever he moved it to, he'll pay more attention and be taught something

That's not to say you always let a kid do what they want. We have a shelf of DVDs my son can get to easily. We could've moved it months ago, but decided to leave it there because "We've babyproofed everything else. What else can we use to train him to listen for the word 'No' and then 'Timeout?'" Then of course, we give him something else to play with.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,010 posts, read 1,118,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I don't buy it. I was spanked and I'm not aggressive. My brothers and sisters were spanked and they are not aggressive.
I agree. Nothing wrong with a good as$ beating. I got plenty of them growing up. I've never been arrested for assault either. That is what's wrong with lids today, too many marshmellow parents and not enough spanking
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,434 posts, read 41,632,813 times
Reputation: 46995
Default Spanking and other physical punishments means mental risks as adults.

Spanking, physical punishment may raise risk for mental health woes in adult years - HealthPop - CBS News
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:37 PM
 
2,188 posts, read 2,514,637 times
Reputation: 1610
It's a little disturbing all the people basically saying 'grow a pair, hit your kid' in this thread. And I only read the first page. Do you think parents don't spank because they don't have the balls to do it? Maybe that tough guy mentality is born out of childhood spanking. Good luck to the parents who think that's the answer.
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