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Old 02-08-2012, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn New York
15,228 posts, read 23,743,496 times
Reputation: 19847

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I am a political liberal. I am a member of a church. A Christian. However, I do not run my home like a Democracy. There are those in charge. My husband and my self. We make the money and pay the bills.

There are those not in charge. We care for them and love them. BUT we do not permit them to use vile language, show disrespect towards us, lie around the house on Saturday playing video games and texting friends.

There are consequences for bad behavior. Over the years spanking has proven very useful at times, especially when "rank" needs to be re-established.

They are older now and we enjoy a close relationship. They are good, productive young people.




This post I fully agree with.


My sons too are older and I must have done something right, they are all college graduates and work. I am also going to give myself a pat on the back, because it is well done. Not many single parents can say that.


My favorite line as a parent is, this is MY house, you abide by MY rules. Worked like a charm......


So after reading all these posts for and against time outs and spanking, my method worked for me and my sons.

I wonder what methid my sons will use on their children.....i can't wait.....
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn New York
15,228 posts, read 23,743,496 times
Reputation: 19847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
But some parents do this without spanking. Your comments on that?

She doesn't need to make a comment.

This is the way "she", and also "I" choose to discipline our children.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,022 posts, read 24,673,685 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
Social Studies tend to have so much bias, that i don't pay much attention to them.
Ironically, childless folks like you and I are able to grasp the idiocy of the article in the OP and understand the merits of "normal" parenting, something widely accepted ever since man/woman (no accusations of chauvinism) got out of the monkey.

And that's what's the ticker here, some of the folks are real parents. I don't think we can call them parents anymore - it sounds very authoritative - how about non-violent, legally accountable, loveable guardians with a unique biological bind - need some form of catchy acronym. I'll work something up. Official vocab guidelines are indicative that bind might be a little forceful, how about linkage.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,225,745 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currency Pair Crocodile View Post
Ironically, childless folks like you and I are able to grasp the idiocy of the article in the OP and understand the merits of "normal" parenting.

And that's what's the ticker here, some of the folks are real parents. I don't think we can call them parents anymore - it sounds very authoritative - how about non-violent, legally accountable, loveable guardians with a unique biological connection - need some form of catchy acronym. I'll work something up.
You paint parents with an awfully broad brush for someone who hasn't gone through it yet.

Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 02-08-2012 at 07:37 AM.. Reason: at poster request for covert ops
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:04 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,568 posts, read 21,741,355 times
Reputation: 44332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
But some parents do this without spanking. Your comments on that?

That is their choice. We have found it effective especially when someone in the family begins to thing for one moment that they were "our equals" or worse "our superiors" This quickly sets the record straight.

Most of these ideas and behaviors were gleaned from chaotic families with "child centered" households. Parents who are afraid of their children.

There is nothing more pathetic or ugly than seeing a nine year old demanding her mother to purchase a trendy outfit, or an eleven year old complaining that they "are tired of sitting in a restaurant" Uncorrected children whose parents feel it is their job to make every day "A Trip to Disney World" are doing their kids and society a disservice. What might be cute (not to me) at four, is annoying at 8, and downright obnoxious at 12.
Sometimes some children occasionally need to be taken down a notch or two.

There IS real child abuse in this country. That needs to be addressed.
We are actually lavish in our praise towards our children, and unconditional in our love.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:31 AM
 
11,229 posts, read 9,225,730 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
Totally agree these conversations are a waste of time. In my field, strategy is the term that is used, not tactic. Using spanking, time outs etc. does not preclude one from having goals and desired outcomes in mind, and effective parenting has these elements included in discipline.
One short note. Time out is an absolutely crappy limit setting technique. It is a great regain control of lost emotional control technique but a crappy, arbitrary and ineffective consequence for many kids. When people say people who use time outs are daffy, I think yah people who try to substitute time outs for hitting aren't going to have much success.

I will try to come up with different words that strategy and tactics. That is where the GOAL is more important to focus on than the action. What are you trying to accomplish. If you are trying to accomplish punishment, then time out is not a useful action.


I don't know what your field is. What I mean is this. Spanking, issuing a time out or having a conversation are actions at a single point in time that may make up part of a bigger strategy of what you want to accomplish over the course of their entire life.

Example. My son comes in the house and drops his jacket on the floor. I look at the jacket and look at him and say "jacket". He looks sheepish says Sorry Mom and hangs up his jacket. What did I just do? Nothing special. Why did he pick up the jacket with an apology instead of rolling his eyes and saying give me a break mom? Because of everything we've done with him for 11 years that makes it clear to him that he is responsible for taking care of stuff and contributing to the home.

I say kiddos garbage and recycle time, they say ok and off they go. What did I do that was special right then? Not a darned thing.

The thing is now by 8 and 11 it is hard to come up with mis-behaviors that might require some kind of limit setting action because they almost never happen anymore. I ask them to clean up the messy living room, they clean up the messy living room. I cannot even remember the last time I had to put the stuff up in the Saturday box.

As they get older, they are going to test limits in new ways. But they will get a quick reinforcement of what they already know. Mom has firm limits that are enforced in positive ways. And then they stop testing limits.

If you are always fighting the limit setting fight, when do you get to move on to character, problem solving, self esteem (in the realest sense of the word not what people think of blowing sunshine up butts), etc..

One of the problems with spanking and other forms or fear, shame or other negative behavior motivators is that it is hard to solicit coorpertation out of one side of your mouth while you are building resentment or fear out of the other. Opportunities to teach other more valuable lessons are lost at the table of limit setting ineffectively.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:42 AM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,292 posts, read 10,099,690 times
Reputation: 3530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
You already said that. But "I'm the parent, not them" really isn't much of a reason to hit them, however you may think it is.



I think "it depends on the child" only as much as it depends on how the child's been raised up to that point, what they're accustomed to. In households with a lot of yelling going on, a stern voice probably isn't going to be enough to get a kid's attention. These homes may just find spanking "necessary" at that point, but I don't think it's necessarily necessary... You KWIM.
I can agree on that. As a child I can remember getting a beating three times in my life. My son recieved two, but after talking, beatings and explanations on why it happened and a show of love and respect we both turned out fine
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:52 AM
 
11,229 posts, read 9,225,730 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
There is nothing more pathetic or ugly than seeing a nine year old demanding her mother to purchase a trendy outfit, or an eleven year old complaining that they "are tired of sitting in a restaurant" Uncorrected children whose parents feel it is their job to make every day "A Trip to Disney World" are doing their kids and society a disservice. What might be cute (not to me) at four, is annoying at 8, and downright obnoxious at 12.
Sometimes some children occasionally need to be taken down a notch or two.

It is wildly inaccurate to assume that people who do not favor spanking favor not correcting their children. While it is definitely true that there are some parents who are permissive and let their kids turn into spoiled little monsters. They are miserable to be around, and their parents are doing them no favors.

The thing that is missing in your assumption is that there are other, better strategies to provide investment, positive discipline that leads to SELF discipline in the long run that has nothing to do with spanking or punishing.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,292 posts, read 10,099,690 times
Reputation: 3530
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcrawler View Post
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Thank you, I couldn't have said it better.

I agree with everything you have posted.

and the parents giving the "times outs", need a smack.


also I always wanted to know, what are they taking a "Time Out" from????...................life???



the kid is having a tantrum and the parent says, OK, lets have a Time Out........

are you kidding, smack the kid and tell him to knock it off already, who is the adult in this situation.


Time out? WTF is that anyway? I have heard of "knocked out time" I have had aunts and uncles who have given some of my cousins real beatdowns when they became teens because they thought that some of the things my cousins did as small children was cute and gave them "time outs" and now they are literally fighting each other
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,225,745 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
One short note. Time out is an absolutely crappy limit setting technique. It is a great regain control of lost emotional control technique but a crappy, arbitrary and ineffective consequence for many kids. When people say people who use time outs are daffy, I think yah people who try to substitute time outs for hitting aren't going to have much success.

I will try to come up with different words that strategy and tactics. That is where the GOAL is more important to focus on than the action. What are you trying to accomplish. If you are trying to accomplish punishment, then time out is not a useful action.


I don't know what your field is. What I mean is this. Spanking, issuing a time out or having a conversation are actions at a single point in time that may make up part of a bigger strategy of what you want to accomplish over the course of their entire life.

Example. My son comes in the house and drops his jacket on the floor. I look at the jacket and look at him and say "jacket". He looks sheepish says Sorry Mom and hangs up his jacket. What did I just do? Nothing special. Why did he pick up the jacket with an apology instead of rolling his eyes and saying give me a break mom? Because of everything we've done with him for 11 years that makes it clear to him that he is responsible for taking care of stuff and contributing to the home.

I say kiddos garbage and recycle time, they say ok and off they go. What did I do that was special right then? Not a darned thing.

The thing is now by 8 and 11 it is hard to come up with mis-behaviors that might require some kind of limit setting action because they almost never happen anymore. I ask them to clean up the messy living room, they clean up the messy living room. I cannot even remember the last time I had to put the stuff up in the Saturday box.

As they get older, they are going to test limits in new ways. But they will get a quick reinforcement of what they already know. Mom has firm limits that are enforced in positive ways. And then they stop testing limits.

If you are always fighting the limit setting fight, when do you get to move on to character, problem solving, self esteem (in the realest sense of the word not what people think of blowing sunshine up butts), etc..

One of the problems with spanking and other forms or fear, shame or other negative behavior motivators is that it is hard to solicit coorpertation out of one side of your mouth while you are building resentment or fear out of the other. Opportunities to teach other more valuable lessons are lost at the table of limit setting ineffectively.

I thought we had an extensive discussion about these things on another thread awhile back...forgive me if I'm confusing you with someone else. My field is clinical psychology, area of specialty behaviorism.

The point of time out is not to set a limit, it is to provide a consequence when a limit has been crossed. Whatever that limit is should be clearly understood by both parties way in advance of any need to use a time out. It is one way to teach behavior leads to consequence. And it doesn't occur in a vacuum. Effective time out is not arbitrary, doesn't come out of no where, and is not a first-line way to discourage undesirable behavior. The examples you've given are examples of contingency management strategies, as well as relying on your children having successfully learned when mom says x, I need to do it. Those who effectively use time outs don't do so in lieu of other strategies focused on problem solving, positive reinforcement, or preventing problem situations from arising in the first place;they are used in addition to these other strategies. The idea that those who use time outs (or spanking for that matter) do so at the cost of dealing with emotions and issues of "character" is erroneous when the strategies are used as part of a greater discipline plan.
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