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Old 02-15-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,565,692 times
Reputation: 7421

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First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Famous quote by Martin Neimoller a German Pastor

This pretty much covers all issues like this with me. All the people who agree with this vaccinate. The ones who don't won't agree, of course. But, there is way more to this than if you just agree or do not. Keep that in mind.

 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:22 PM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,641,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronenborg View Post
to the OP's question as to whether this is "right" or not...

its certainly a tricky one. i can totally understand the sentiment of implementing a rule that refusal to vaccinate means rejection from the doctor's practice as an incentive to vaccinate, knowing the benefit that it will bring not only to the individual, but to the population as a whole. however the difficulty comes when it doesn't work, and people choose to walk away from medical care.

it does seem harsh to penalise a child, with potential negative implications for other areas of their healthcare, because of a foolish or misinformed decision on behalf of the parent relating to vaccines.

sure, currently they can go and find another doctor. but what if ALL doctors instigated this rule?

much as i support vaccination on a population level, this just doesn't sit well with me.

people constantly make choices which can have adverse consequences for their health - smoking, eating too much, not exercising, and on and on it goes - do we turn these people away for making choices (ok, lets not get into a debate about the "choice" involved in addiction - you get my point) which are not healthy for them, or others?

The problem is often your waiting room as a pediatrician is filled with young babies/toddlers who have not yet had the chance to get immunized. While a mothers breast milk does offer protection it is not absolute. You have to weigh the benefit on all your paitents.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:24 PM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,641,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
Or its not a particularly bad disease. There seems to be more vaccines created simply because the illness is inconvenient or troublesome. The chicken pox vaccine for example. Yes children die from the chicken pox. But its an amount thats hardly worth talking about. I have had the chicken pox vaccine but thats only because by the age of 16 I had not come in contact with it. Some parents feel that building a natural immunity from contact is better than a vaccine. So if your child can just get chicken pox from the neighbor and move on, then so be it. Of course children should be vaccinated again polio mumps etc. But some are extraneous almost.
If you were one of the hundred or so parents who had a child die from it you might be singing a different tune no?
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,641,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I can see this happening, medicine is a business. Mormon businesses hire like minds around where I live, I guess doctors can customize their patients to match their beliefs as they see it a waist of time to weed through the ones that disagree with anything they believe in. It saves them time and increases the dollar amount. I guess firing patients includes the families that won't loose weight and won't stop drinking, or smoking. Those would be a waist of time as well.
I don't think the spreading of illness would be a great concern, it's rare to have a patient with measles or mumps, maybe a good excuse to used because even people with vaccines can catch these things depending on their immunity, plus, wouldn't you lose sleep over a baby being exposed to any illness that could cause harm?. There are plenty with the flu and other things like staph that could hurt a baby that go to the doctor along side of them. I'm sure he doesn't think if all his patients got the flu vaccine then he wouldn't have to deal with treating the flu, does he? I guess he could require immunity tests at a certain age to make sure all his patients couldn't possibly get ill from vaccine related disease if he wanted to.
It seems to make sense when money is the issue though, and, doctors are operating a business, I can see that it would make his office more efficient as a business so why not. I think it's naive to forget that doctors make a profit just like any other business and that we don't have socialize medicine here. Each office is individual.
I'm glad, I would want to know if this is how my doctor felt, I would also want the choice to go to him or not. For me I would avoid a doctor like this but some would be of like mind and love to be exclusive. It's good for all I believe.
I'd love a doctor where all the patients exercised, ate well, didn't drink or smoke. If he prescribed only necessary meds and gave holistic advice as well as life style changes. Looked into root causes like vitamin deficiencies instead of just treating the symptoms with prescriptions right away, especially nice if 1/2 the moms in the waiting room weren't addicted to prescription pain meds. I'd be part of that club. It could be cool to see what customized doctors come up with.

Maybe you could have some just for fat people. Some just for party people. lol It will be an interesting turn of events in the future of the medicine business that's for sure.

The flu vaccine treats influenza which can be deadly, the flu most people get is called Gastroenteritis and is not related .
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Jersey
870 posts, read 1,219,466 times
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Probably but vaccines have been known to kill too. And if a hundred people die from chicken pox and a hundred die from the chicken pox vaccine then the danger is the same, no?
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,565,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
The problem is often your waiting room as a pediatrician is filled with young babies/toddlers who have not yet had the chance to get immunized. While a mothers breast milk does offer protection it is not absolute. You have to weigh the benefit on all your paitents.
That is not rational at all. Just an excuse to act. I doubt the stats on that wouldn't support it. Mothers give birth in hospitals for God sake. There is no vaccine for RSV and that doesn't prevent most doctors sleep.
I just think he is on a mission. He has that right obviously but I don't think it's a good point. Some will, but then we are all different. If we start splitting up because of fear I don't think we will be a happy bunch.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Bucks, UK
523 posts, read 3,287,590 times
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lucid, i absolutely get that, and obviously it is a consideration - doctor's waiting rooms are filled with people carrying all sorts of communicable diseases, some which can be vaccinated against, some which cant. i would rather deal with that problem by having seperate waiting areas than by total exclusion of children who remain unvaccinated due to parental beliefs.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:35 PM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,641,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
That is not rational at all. Just an excuse to act. I doubt the stats on that wouldn't support it. Mothers give birth in hospitals for God sake. There is no vaccine for RSV and that doesn't prevent most doctors sleep.
I just think he is on a mission. He has that right obviously but I don't think it's a good point. Some will, but then we are all different. If we start splitting up because of fear I don't think we will be a happy bunch.

My sister won't treat them because she isn't taking the risk for personal moral beliefs, and because its a potential lawsuit waiting to happen. And there is a difference between kids waiting in an unsterile waiting room then being born in a scrubbed hospital :-P.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,565,692 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
If you were one of the hundred or so parents who had a child die from it you might be singing a different tune no?
Why go to the doctor for that matter, you might die on the way there in a car accident. All of this is stupid and could go on and on and on.

Some doctors are just freaky some are not. Go to the one you like. If you love the doc who fires patients who don't vaccinate then go to him, if not then go to a normal one. It's choice, once again. Just don't take it away and were all good.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 02:40 PM
 
Location: North America
14,212 posts, read 9,641,047 times
Reputation: 5537
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Why go to the doctor for that matter, you might die on the way there in a car accident. All of this is stupid and could go on and on and on.

Some doctors are just freaky some are not. Go to the one you like. If you love the doc who fires patients who don't vaccinate then go to him, if not then go to a normal one. It's choice, once again. Just don't take it away and were all good.
I'm not saying i agree with the vaccine just the belief that it's not needed. My point was over the fact that the number of dead children was too small to worry about making a vaccine over it.
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