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Old 02-15-2012, 03:21 PM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,255,696 times
Reputation: 19712

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongtimeBravesFan View Post
Should a doctor have the right to fire a patient who continues to smoke three packs of cigarettes a day?
Yup.

AMA is AMA whether it is refusing to vaccinate or refusing to follow medical orders.

But to be fair it is a completely inaccurate analogy.

Whether or not the smoker quits has no effect on the other patients whereas a non vaccinated child can have an effect on other patients in the waiting room.

 
Old 02-15-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: here
24,483 posts, read 28,851,362 times
Reputation: 31077
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I'm not sure but if this flies then why not? That's the point, it's endless. I think some nurses can't come to work without it, didn't you tell me that on the last vaccine thread we were on?

The topic is vaccines in general I thought, not specific vaccines. IDK, did he have a list of must haves and it's ok not to haves?

Just think it goes down the same lines as "should schools be able to refuse kids with ADD or ADHD who don't get medicated?" or " should welfare be able to refuse helping fat people or make them pay extra in fines?" or "should allowing your kid to be fat be considered child abuse and get them taken away?". Just seems as though this is along the same lines as those debates...........never ending, team sporting, topics. I consider myself a bit more mature I guess, I'm old,bandwagoning isn't something I'm into in any circumstance. Always astonished at those willing to jump right on.
I don't understand what you are saying. Who is bandwaggoning? The doctors? The vaccinators? The non vaccinators?

These aren't just "team sporting" topics being discussed for the fun of it. They are real issues that become laws in some cases.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 03:22 PM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,255,696 times
Reputation: 19712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
Of course! A doctor can decide to treat or not treat whoever they want. But someone has to treat the smoker, the obese one, the unvaccinated one. And honestly smoking kills you. It just does. Not being vaccinated doesnt. A disease can but declining on a vaccine doesnt not have a direct correlation to death
Not vaccinating can kill OTHER people.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 03:24 PM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,255,696 times
Reputation: 19712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
Probably but vaccines have been known to kill too. And if a hundred people die from chicken pox and a hundred die from the chicken pox vaccine then the danger is the same, no?
Are you actually claiming the rate of side effects from vaccination, including death, are equal to the rate of death from the disease????
 
Old 02-15-2012, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,234,932 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I'm not sure but if this flies then why not? That's the point, it's endless. I think some nurses can't come to work without it, didn't you tell me that on the last vaccine thread we were on?

The topic is vaccines in general I thought, not specific vaccines. IDK, did he have a list of must haves and it's ok not to haves?

Just think it goes down the same lines as "should schools be able to refuse kids with ADD or ADHD who don't get medicated?" or " should welfare be able to refuse helping fat people or make them pay extra in fines?" or "should allowing your kid to be fat be considered child abuse and get them taken away?". Just seems as though this is along the same lines as those debates...........never ending, team sporting, topics. I consider myself a bit more mature I guess, I'm old,bandwagoning isn't something I'm into in any circumstance. Always astonished at those willing to jump right on.
Ok I was just trying to clarify if you knew of cases of patients be fired for refusing to get the flu vaccine or if it was part of an "it's endless" argument. Thanks for clarifying. And nope, wasn't me talking about nurses on another thread.

I'm not sure what you're saying in your second paragraph re: bandwagons, etc.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 03:26 PM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,255,696 times
Reputation: 19712
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
That is not rational at all. Just an excuse to act. I doubt the stats on that wouldn't support it. Mothers give birth in hospitals for God sake. There is no vaccine for RSV and that doesn't prevent most doctors sleep.
I just think he is on a mission. He has that right obviously but I don't think it's a good point. Some will, but then we are all different. If we start splitting up because of fear I don't think we will be a happy bunch.
Another crap analogy.

Hospitals deliberately keep delivery nurses, doctors, staff etc on separate wards and usually separate floors in order to avoid infection. How is that supposed to happen in a doctors waiting room?
 
Old 02-15-2012, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,579,621 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Judging from many of your posts I've gather you are anti-vaccine? You also seem to be anit-Big Pharm?

Which leads me to believe that you see all of this as a big conspiracy on the part of the vaccine manufacturers? A sort of We Make Money If We Vaccinate And We'll Deny Care To Anyone Who Doesn't. That's what I'm getting from your posts.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm here to learn.
Well, all my kids have their normal child hood vaccines Dew, so obviously not ant-vaccine. But, I am pro choice in all areas. I don't agree with getting parent's who don't to do it, nor make them feel like crap for not because I don't feel qualified to judge and it would take years of study to prove they are wrong. It's personal I believe, parents for the most part aren't stupid for not vaccinating in my opinion.

Pharm. companies do make money, they are in business to make money. We don't have socialized medicine. So, yes, I think in cases like the latest where they aren't producing enough cancer meds and kids can die without it if they have leukemia, and the like, it sickens me a bit to think that their decisions were based on money. I would like an alternative and will vote for one accordingly. But different thread i wasn't allowed to post.

I don't have any conspiracy and I do think that doctors have the right to refuse patients of any kind but, I wouldn't go to a doctor who did because I think it's a bad choice and wouldn't want a doctor that makes bad choices.


I see you guys trying to make mountains out of molehills. You jump on topics like this because you agree (bandwagoning) with getting vaccinated and think people who don't are idiots. But, I don't, I don't think either side of the coin is right or wrong. It's just a choice. I respect others choices. That is the difference.

Yes, my kids are vaccinated, most of the normal vaccines, no, they didn't get the hpv vaccine yet. Sorry, still undecided on that one, even after getting murdered on the last thread about it.

This doctor made a choice, I agree he should have the choice but I also agree that the parents who choose not to should have that choice. I think a doctor that doesn't think that choice is important is stupid to me and he would loose me as a patient if he fired patients for not vaccinating. That is all it is, no conspiracy here, quite the opposite. Just a good ol' American belief in choice. Without choice we are in more danger to me, there are a lot of things that we do that others wouldn't agree with. Not just vaccinating. I'd have to agree to ALL of it if I agreed to one. I don't want to.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,579,621 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Another crap analogy.

Hospitals deliberately keep delivery nurses, doctors, staff etc on separate wards and usually separate floors in order to avoid infection. How is that supposed to happen in a doctors waiting room?
Hm, you really believe that no babies get sick in hospitals? No hospital employees are ever sick either? Completely illness free?
I guess we just differ in this area then. I think babies are always at risk, everywhere. Just a part of life.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:04 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,452,523 times
Reputation: 32248
Thanks for taking the time to explain your thoughts on that one PoppySead. I appreciate it very much. (You do sound like a Zonie, BTW. Free advice: Don't move to CA. The regulations there would make you NUTS.)
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: here
24,483 posts, read 28,851,362 times
Reputation: 31077
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, all my kids have their normal child hood vaccines Dew, so obviously not ant-vaccine. But, I am pro choice in all areas. I don't agree with getting parent's who don't to do it, nor make them feel like crap for not because I don't feel qualified to judge and it would take years of study to prove they are wrong. It's personal I believe, parents for the most part aren't stupid for not vaccinating in my opinion.

Pharm. companies do make money, they are in business to make money. We don't have socialized medicine. So, yes, I think in cases like the latest where they aren't producing enough cancer meds and kids can die without it if they have leukemia, and the like, it sickens me a bit to think that their decisions were based on money. I would like an alternative and will vote for one accordingly. But different thread i wasn't allowed to post.

I don't have any conspiracy and I do think that doctors have the right to refuse patients of any kind but, I wouldn't go to a doctor who did because I think it's a bad choice and wouldn't want a doctor that makes bad choices.


I see you guys trying to make mountains out of molehills. You jump on topics like this because you agree (bandwagoning) with getting vaccinated and think people who don't are idiots. But, I don't, I don't think either side of the coin is right or wrong. It's just a choice. I respect others choices. That is the difference.

Yes, my kids are vaccinated, most of the normal vaccines, no, they didn't get the hpv vaccine yet. Sorry, still undecided on that one, even after getting murdered on the last thread about it.

This doctor made a choice, I agree he should have the choice but I also agree that the parents who choose not to should have that choice. I think a doctor that doesn't think that choice is important is stupid to me and he would loose me as a patient if he fired patients for not vaccinating. That is all it is, no conspiracy here, quite the opposite. Just a good ol' American belief in choice. Without choice we are in more danger to me, there are a lot of things that we do that others wouldn't agree with. Not just vaccinating. I'd have to agree to ALL of it if I agreed to one. I don't want to.
1) I don't think I'd call a doctor who refuses a patient because they didn't vaccinate an "extremist." (I believe it was a different post where you did)
2) I wouldn't say a person who vaccinates their kids is "bandwaggoning". I might say that about the parents who refuse to because of what they read on crazy quack web sites.

I don't see how contributing to this thread is "bandwaggoning" either. We have opinions. We are expressing them.
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