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Old 02-15-2012, 04:10 PM
 
Location: here
24,477 posts, read 28,789,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Hm, you really believe that no babies get sick in hospitals? No hospital employees are ever sick either? Completely illness free?
I guess we just differ in this area then. I think babies are always at risk, everywhere. Just a part of life.
Seriously? Of course they are at risk everywhere. Do you really not think the waiting room of a doctor's office presents more of a risk? It is a small room full of sick people. A maternity ward is several rooms full of well people having babies.

no one said any of that. YOU compared birthing a child at a hospital to taking a baby to a doctor's office. Clearly, they are not the same.

 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,562,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Thanks for taking the time to explain your thoughts on that one PoppySead. I appreciate it very much. (You do sound like a Zonie, BTW. Free advice: Don't move to CA. The regulations there would make you NUTS.)
lol, yes, I am a Zonie. No problem Dew, I like most of your posts. Even if I don't agree sometimes.

Last edited by PoppySead; 02-15-2012 at 04:47 PM..
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,562,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Seriously? Of course they are at risk everywhere. Do you really not think the waiting room of a doctor's office presents more of a risk? It is a small room full of sick people. A maternity ward is several rooms full of well people having babies.

no one said any of that. YOU compared birthing a child at a hospital to taking a baby to a doctor's office. Clearly, they are not the same.
This is going to be a silly argument Kibbiekat. I think if the doctor is loosing sleep over children getting ill then he should get a well room. I honestly think the doctor poses a risk to the newborns he sees as well. I just don't think using the excuse of the slim chance that you'd have an kid with the measles in the same room with a newborn would be enough to convince me it's why he chooses to fire patients. I just don't buy into it, on so many levels.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:49 PM
 
15,309 posts, read 16,881,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
That is not rational at all. Just an excuse to act. I doubt the stats on that wouldn't support it. Mothers give birth in hospitals for God sake. There is no vaccine for RSV and that doesn't prevent most doctors sleep.
I just think he is on a mission. He has that right obviously but I don't think it's a good point. Some will, but then we are all different. If we start splitting up because of fear I don't think we will be a happy bunch.
Hospitals are not safe places in terms of infectious diseases despite being *scrubbed*

Hospital Infections Kill 48,000 Each Year - Infectious Diseases: Causes, Types, Prevention, Treatment and Facts on MedicineNet.com

Quote:
Every year, 48,000 Americans die of infections they caught while in the hospital -- and that's a conservative estimate, a new study finds.

These aren't infections people would have caught anyway. They are mistakes that cost lives, says study researcher Ramanan Laxminarayan, PhD, MPH, a senior fellow at the Washington, D.C. think tank Resources for the Future.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
1) I don't think I'd call a doctor who refuses a patient because they didn't vaccinate an "extremist." (I believe it was a different post where you did)
2) I wouldn't say a person who vaccinates their kids is "bandwagoning". I might say that about the parents who refuse to because of what they read on crazy quack web sites.

I don't see how contributing to this thread is "bandwagoning" either. We have opinions. We are expressing them.
Well, obviously I would. A doctor going as far as to fire patients who lack agreement about vaccines for their kids is extreme to me as well as contradictory to others he treats who smoke, or are overweight, don't exercise. They would have every right to question why he still treats them or assume he agree's that they are ok for doing those things.

Bandwagoning is just jumping in agreement to something because you agree, but, it lacks the thinking of the big picture to me. I'm sure you do do things that others would consider something you shouldn't do. When you think beyond your immediate agreement and look at the big picture it has a different meaning. Accepting this behavior from this doctor has larger implications so even if I agree with vaccinating my own kids and would but I am not going to condone a doctor firing patients who don't. That could only lead to issues I'm not comfortable with.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:58 PM
 
Location: here
24,477 posts, read 28,789,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
This is going to be a silly argument Kibbiekat. I think if the doctor is loosing sleep over children getting ill then he should get a well room. I honestly think the doctor poses a risk to the newborns he sees as well. I just don't think using the excuse of the slim chance that you'd have an kid with the measles in the same room with a newborn would be enough to convince me it's why he chooses to fire patients. I just don't buy into it, on so many levels.
Well, I think it is justified. I don't think they are making up reasons to fire patients. That doesn't even make sense. That is money out of their own pocket.

I pointed out earlier that not all doctor's offices are equipped to have separate waiting rooms. It isn't a simple solution, and it doesn't help when the patients use the same hallways and exam rooms.

I'm not trying to have a silly argument. When I see a rationalization that is flawed, I point it out. You compared a maternity ward to a pediatrician's office. They are different. That's all I'm saying.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: here
24,477 posts, read 28,789,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, obviously I would. A doctor going as far as to fire patients who lack agreement about vaccines for their kids is extreme to me as well as contradictory to others he treats who smoke, or are overweight, don't exercise. They would have every right to question why he still treats them or assume he agree's that they are ok for doing those things.

Bandwagoning is just jumping in agreement to something because you agree, but, it lacks the thinking of the big picture to me. I'm sure you do do things that others would consider something you shouldn't do. When you think beyond your immediate agreement and look at the big picture it has a different meaning. Accepting this behavior from this doctor has larger implications so even if I agree with vaccinating my own kids and would but I am not going to condone a doctor firing patients who don't. That could only lead to issues I'm not comfortable with.
did you miss my earlier post where I pointed out that people who don't exercise, are overweight, or smoke don't pose a risk to the other patients in the practice, only to themselves? It is apples to oranges.

Simply agreeing that the doctors have a right to do this does not mean I/we haven't thought about the big picture. Perhaps we've considered the bigger picture, and are comfortable with it.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: California
29,634 posts, read 31,973,225 times
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I imaging it a safety thing and they are covering the bases to prevent any infections or diseases from spreading. Even my cat groomer won't take a cat who doesn't have it's rabies certificate.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,562,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Well, I think it is justified. I don't think they are making up reasons to fire patients. That doesn't even make sense. That is money out of their own pocket.

I pointed out earlier that not all doctor's offices are equipped to have separate waiting rooms. It isn't a simple solution, and it doesn't help when the patients use the same hallways and exam rooms.

I'm not trying to have a silly argument. When I see a rationalization that is flawed, I point it out. You compared a maternity ward to a pediatrician's office. They are different. That's all I'm saying.
I wasn't really comparing the two as a separate argument, just making a point that you will worry about a newborn anywhere, even in the hospital you birth it at.
The cleanliness of a doctors waiting room vs a hospital would be another topic altogether. I was just saying, it's not a convincing argument for me. That's all, I will have to just leave it at that.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,562,505 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
did you miss my earlier post where I pointed out that people who don't exercise, are overweight, or smoke don't pose a risk to the other patients in the practice, only to themselves? It is apples to oranges.

Simply agreeing that the doctors have a right to do this does not mean I/we haven't thought about the big picture. Perhaps we've considered the bigger picture, and are comfortable with it.
Premise is the same:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...-short-supply/

Well, that is what I'm referring to as missing the big picture. Say, chemo meds are in short supply, and you have a woman who use to smoke but is now a mom and doesn't who has cancer. You also have a child or parent with cancer who never smoked a day in their life. Who gets the medicine when their is only enough for one of them? These are the kinds of events that happen because people don't look at the big picture.

What if you have someone who drinks beer, a lot maybe, maybe not but ends up needing a liver. You have someone who hasn't, needs the liver. What do you do. Then there is the unfortunate trickle down. The kid that needs chemo but who's parents smoked in the home. Then the kids who's parents didn't make a bad decision to smoke in the home. Who gets the meds if they are running out?

These are all real life scenarios. The same premise is used. It's endless. How can you make one decision like that without the other?

You are wrong if you think it doesn't all boil down to who the majority thinks deserves help. It does, and it can be scary. I won't participate. It's all or nothing for me. That is the big picture behind the choice to fire patients, or deny coverage, or help to those who have made bad decisions in their lives. Even if they've changed, it's always their with them.

I just don't agree with the premise on which to give or not give people care. Even if I am not the smoker, drinker, or anti vacciner. Maybe you don't understand where I'm coming from but that's ok, as long as choice still stands and people like you who don't think of the big picture don't start making it fact. It's ok if some doctor wants to choose patients but if it becomes a law then that is a problem. Things progress. That is what age has taught me.
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