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Old 02-21-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: here
24,483 posts, read 28,860,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, I have 3 kids and 2 of them are teenagers, and one an adult over 18. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything but for the record. I was talking about frequent illness but I would apply the "relax, that's life" principle to all the things you've mentioned that I've been through. Different strokes I guess, and this was just advice, it can be taken or disregarded, I'm not bothered by it. Just adding anything that might be helpful, if it isn't then no problems.

What I posted to Suzy_q was actually just a joke. "What happened to the hand gel at Wal Mart?", I'm slowly learning jokes don't float well on forums. Part of my personality is to laugh at myself and others, I probably should curb it a bit.

Some parents don't have a budget that allows a lot of emergency care, only enough for serious emergency care like vomiting, high fever, etc. Not for colds, tummy aches, etc. There are things unforeseen like divorce, recession, job loss, and pay cuts.
PTO might be able to complain to the district but this is accepted across the state. It's not just a certain district. The police officers can pick up your child and detain them here. The PTO usually runs fund raising campaigns for the school and I don't honestly see how or why they would take on state laws. Maybe some have but I've never heard of it.

This is what all parents sign upon entering school here. No exceptions are made. When I had an issue with my son I had to take him out of school for the year and eschool him. No exceptions were made for me.

Enforcing Truancy Laws - FindLaw
Arizona State Law defines an absence as excessive when the number of days is more than 10% of the number of days required in the school year.
Therefore, any student absent a combined total of 18 days (consecutive or nonconsecutive, excuse or unexcused) is deemed truant and excessive. A student having 3 tardies also equal one absence.
Absentee letters will be mailed to parents/guardians when their student reaches 6 days, 10 days, and 15 days of absences.
4
Excessive absenteeism and truancy are serious issues and a violation of state and local laws. The Arizona Compulsory Attendance Law makes it the legal responsibility of parents/guardians to have their children in school on a regular basis. Arizona is committed to supporting students and families to
minimize excessive absences. To that end, when a student has reached 15 absences, it will require the student and parent/guardian to meet with the Truancy Committee.
At the Truancy Committee meeting, the student, parent/guardian, and the school will discuss strategies to prevent possible expulsion, and/or referral to Juvenile Court, and/or referral to Child Protective Services. (Due process followed as per ARS 15-803). The student and/or parent may also be required to sign an Attendance Contract. Once on an attendance contract, a studentís subsequent absences will only be excused with either proper medical or court documentation. (Students with extenuating circumstances should consult with the principal).
If a student is unable to attend school due to a prolonged illness or injury (three or more days), a note from a doctor must be submitted to the attendance clerk.
Truancy
Unexcused absences maybe deemed as truant. Truancy is a violation of state and local attendance laws and is considered a serious offense. Continue truancy may result in legal action against the parents or guardians. The Arizona Compulsory Attendance Law makes it the legal responsibility of parents to have their children in school on a regular basis.
Tardy Policy
Late arrival means lost learning and disruption of class! Helping students instill the value of promptness will make them more successful in almost every aspect of their lives!!
When students are tardy, they must report to the office for a late pass. This will ensure the studentís name will be removed from the daily absentee report. Only a student with a late pass will be admitted to class late.
A student is tardy at 8:35 a.m. for all grades.
Student who have been tardy 2 times in 1 week, will be required to attend lunch detention, after-school detention, and/or will do community service. Once a student reaches 4 tardies in a week, that student will be required to spend one day in in-school suspension for each tardy thereafter.
The school needs to know by 8:30am if your child with be late. There is an important reason this should be done as soon as possible. The home and school need to know quickly if any child left home for school, but did not arrive at school.
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Early Departures
Early release equals lost learning!! Teachers often use the last few minutes of a class to review and communicate assignments.
Three early releases also equal one absence.
None of this is an excuse for taking a puking child to school! I understand that missing work is more difficult for some than for others. There were mornings I was in tears because my son was sick, yet again, and I was expected at work. I get it. But the rules are there for a reason. Think not only of the other kids and the teacher, but of your own child, trying to sit at his desk and pay attention while nauseated.

A sick policy and a mandatory attendance policy are 2 completely different thing. I don't really see how this is relevant.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:43 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,463,966 times
Reputation: 32249
Poppy - This may be too personal and you don't have to answer.... Were the issues with your son medical? And if they were was an explanation from his doctor not accepted by the school?

But I can see the state wanting parents to eschool even if a child is chronically ill. Fifty years ago, in the state I grew up in, a chronically ill child still had to be enrolled in some type of school. There were teachers who visited the child's home. The child still had homework, etc.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,582,254 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
None of this is an excuse for taking a puking child to school! I understand that missing work is more difficult for some than for others. There were mornings I was in tears because my son was sick, yet again, and I was expected at work. I get it. But the rules are there for a reason. Think not only of the other kids and the teacher, but of your own child, trying to sit at his desk and pay attention while nauseated.

A sick policy and a mandatory attendance policy are 2 completely different thing. I don't really see how this is relevant.
Listen, while this isn't my preferred policy I cannot argue with the law. While I chose to keep my child home all year, others don't even have the choice to keep their kids home when they "might" be getting sick. I just understand the possibility of this. I'm not condoning it, I just see the possibility of some not having much choice in the matter. If you have the choice then great, but some don't. If your child is going to miss more than 18 days in AZ, you will be homeschooling, that will be your choice. Then you can protect them from a lot of things.
Kids get tummy aches all the time, the most common complaint from kids at the doc is tummy aches. You can't keep them home for all of them. Vomiting is different, but, you never know what the tummy ache will turn into. Most of the time it goes away in a while, or it's nerves, every once in a while they barf from it. Then you run to the school and get them whilst kicking yourself for not knowing the difference.
Not trying to upset you, or argue, but, it's not as black and white to me. That's all.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:38 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,275,917 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Listen, while this isn't my preferred policy I cannot argue with the law. While I chose to keep my child home all year, others don't even have the choice to keep their kids home when they "might" be getting sick. I just understand the possibility of this. I'm not condoning it, I just see the possibility of some not having much choice in the matter. If you have the choice then great, but some don't.
This attitude speaks to a pet peeve of mine. School is for learning. It is not for free child care. Parents better have a "choice" or backup plan for when their kids are sick. Because sending your sick kid in because you have no "choice" is just lame.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,582,254 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Poppy - This may be too personal and you don't have to answer.... Were the issues with your son medical? And if they were was an explanation from his doctor not accepted by the school?

But I can see the state wanting parents to eschool even if a child is chronically ill. Fifty years ago, in the state I grew up in, a chronically ill child still had to be enrolled in some type of school. There were teachers who visited the child's home. The child still had homework, etc.
Yes, it was medical. I wasn't sure what it was, then two doctors later we found out it was a gallstone. It was odd, he's skinny and he was only 8. Doesn't eat much. I wasn't sure if it was infectious or not, (upset stomach, diarrhea, barfing on and off, stomach pain)one doctor suggested it was nerves and offered a anti depressant. It was an odd case, luckily I worked from home. I'm fortunate. The school wasn't that understanding, and I could not get notes with no diagnosis from the doctors but nerves. To tell you the truth my oldest was got stomach aches when she was nervous so it's hard to tell with kids. She would have gladly missed everyday of school. lol She never liked it. That is how I was introduced to e schooling. When she was a teenager she e schooled and graduated at 16, went on to college early.

With his symptoms I suggested gallstones or kidney stones>husband has those, to the last doc. I said they run in the family and the symptoms were strangely familiar. He actually said, well, worth a shot, and wa la, there it was, a little stone the same size as the ducked. Odd, but he said he had seen it before. Poor little dude. Some kids have them and never find out until they are adults. His was getting stuck in the ducked so it was causing more symptoms then a free floating stone. They actually went in through the mouth and removed it. He got to keep that little gallbladder, which I'm not sure is a good idea or not. lol
Symptoms subsided immediately. Because of the option to virtual school during this whole ordeal he didn't have to miss a year of school. I'm grateful for that. He went way over the 18 days, about 35 days I believe.
To bad the public schools don't have an e school option for medical leave, I know it's possible.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,582,254 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
This attitude speaks to a pet peeve of mine. School is for learning. It is not for free child care. Parents better have a "choice" or backup plan for when their kids are sick. Because sending your sick kid in because you have no "choice" is just lame.
Aw, in a perfect world.
Public school was created for child care and added learning. The learning is a bonus we've incorporated. There is no secret into why the school hours are the same as work hours. It would actually be a better learning environment if school didn't start until 10am. It is designed for both issues. Parents request it be incorporated with child care all the time. Good or bad, it's how it is.

I guess there could be separate schools for working and non working parents. That might solve some of your issues.

They are doing this again with pre schools, pre care for working parents that includes learning. They are incorporating learning into child care because parents seek education while their kids are being watched as they go to work.
I feel for teachers, I'm from a family full of them. But, yes, they are educators and for the most part watch peoples children for them. Not all parents can be as thoughtful as you about illness.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 35,109,599 times
Reputation: 42377
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Aw, in a perfect world.
Public school was created for child care and added learning. The learning is a bonus we've incorporated. There is no secret into why the school hours are the same as work hours. It would actually be a better learning environment if school didn't start until 10am. It is designed for both issues. Parents request it be incorporated with child care all the time. Good or bad, it's how it is.

I guess there could be separate schools for working and non working parents. That might solve some of your issues.

They are doing this again with pre schools, pre care for working parents that includes learning. They are incorporating learning into child care because parents seek education while their kids are being watched as they go to work.
I feel for teachers, I'm from a family full of them. But, yes, they are educators and for the most part watch peoples children for them. Not all parents can be as thoughtful as you about illness.
I disagree with you that public education is essentially day care, but that's beside the point. Sending sick, contagious kids to school causes teachers to get sick, which interrupts the learning process for the entire class and costs the school money. Moreover, sick children get other children sick, and those children get their parents sick. It's not up to Parent A to make someone else's Parent B miss work, just because Parent A didn't have a contingency plan. Why should it be up to everyone else to deal with the fallout of Child A's illness?
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:58 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,275,917 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Aw, in a perfect world.
Public school was created for child care
WHAT???!!
Quote:

and added learning. The learning is a bonus we've incorporated.
What??!!?? Time for some history lessons.

Quote:
There is no secret into why the school hours are the same as work hours.
They sure aren't around here.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:22 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,275,917 times
Reputation: 14658
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I disagree with you that public education is essentially day care, but that's beside the point. Sending sick, contagious kids to school causes teachers to get sick, which interrupts the learning process for the entire class and costs the school money. Moreover, sick children get other children sick, and those children get their parents sick. It's not up to Parent A to make someone else's Parent B miss work, just because Parent A didn't have a contingency plan. Why should it be up to everyone else to deal with the fallout of Child A's illness?
Yes the point is moot since even child care providers require sick children to stay home.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:25 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,663,988 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Aw, in a perfect world.
Public school was created for child care and added learning. The learning is a bonus we've incorporated. There is no secret into why the school hours are the same as work hours. It would actually be a better learning environment if school didn't start until 10am. It is designed for both issues. Parents request it be incorporated with child care all the time. Good or bad, it's how it is.

I guess there could be separate schools for working and non working parents. That might solve some of your issues.

They are doing this again with pre schools, pre care for working parents that includes learning. They are incorporating learning into child care because parents seek education while their kids are being watched as they go to work.
I feel for teachers, I'm from a family full of them. But, yes, they are educators and for the most part watch peoples children for them. Not all parents can be as thoughtful as you about illness.

To your first point, no, public schools were not created for the purposes of child care. They were created to establish a foundational base of necessary knowledge for a person to exist in society. If you want to take it to the extreme, public schools exist to indoctrinate kids and turn them into better worker drones.

On the second point though you are somewhat correct. Daycares and before/after school programs were designed to provide "baby sitting" services for working parents to fill-in for the time before a child would start school and during the hours school wasn't in session. These programs have evolved now to incorporate more and more learning time and materials as parents demanded that the time be used more constructively and research has proven that early childhood learning is critical.
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