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Old 02-21-2012, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371

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Jeez, I knew I'd set off a firestorm when I said the school is the parents' child care once kids are in school. In point of fact, school is the "defacto" child care arrangement for some parents while school is in session. School takes care of their problem of what to do with the child during those hours. You will note I also said I don't agree that school is for childcare purposes. There's no need to argue this one through time and enternity.

The Arizona laws actually look reasonable to me. It does seem there is some room for flexibility, e.g.
Quote:
(Students with extenuating circumstances should consult with the principal).
If a student is unable to attend school due to a prolonged illness or injury (three or more days), a note from a doctor must be submitted to the attendance clerk.
Truancy
Unexcused absences maybe deemed as truant.
Also:
Quote:
To that end, when a student has reached 15 absences. . .
15 absences is a lot, absent any extenuating circumstances. That is three full weeks.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:32 PM
 
Location: here
24,469 posts, read 28,723,874 times
Reputation: 31039
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Listen, while this isn't my preferred policy I cannot argue with the law. While I chose to keep my child home all year, others don't even have the choice to keep their kids home when they "might" be getting sick. I just understand the possibility of this. I'm not condoning it, I just see the possibility of some not having much choice in the matter. If you have the choice then great, but some don't. If your child is going to miss more than 18 days in AZ, you will be homeschooling, that will be your choice. Then you can protect them from a lot of things.
Kids get tummy aches all the time, the most common complaint from kids at the doc is tummy aches. You can't keep them home for all of them. Vomiting is different, but, you never know what the tummy ache will turn into. Most of the time it goes away in a while, or it's nerves, every once in a while they barf from it. Then you run to the school and get them whilst kicking yourself for not knowing the difference.
Not trying to upset you, or argue, but, it's not as black and white to me. That's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Yes, it was medical. I wasn't sure what it was, then two doctors later we found out it was a gallstone. It was odd, he's skinny and he was only 8. Doesn't eat much. I wasn't sure if it was infectious or not, (upset stomach, diarrhea, barfing on and off, stomach pain)one doctor suggested it was nerves and offered a anti depressant. It was an odd case, luckily I worked from home. I'm fortunate. The school wasn't that understanding, and I could not get notes with no diagnosis from the doctors but nerves. To tell you the truth my oldest was got stomach aches when she was nervous so it's hard to tell with kids. She would have gladly missed everyday of school. lol She never liked it. That is how I was introduced to e schooling. When she was a teenager she e schooled and graduated at 16, went on to college early.

With his symptoms I suggested gallstones or kidney stones>husband has those, to the last doc. I said they run in the family and the symptoms were strangely familiar. He actually said, well, worth a shot, and wa la, there it was, a little stone the same size as the ducked. Odd, but he said he had seen it before. Poor little dude. Some kids have them and never find out until they are adults. His was getting stuck in the ducked so it was causing more symptoms then a free floating stone. They actually went in through the mouth and removed it. He got to keep that little gallbladder, which I'm not sure is a good idea or not. lol
Symptoms subsided immediately. Because of the option to virtual school during this whole ordeal he didn't have to miss a year of school. I'm grateful for that. He went way over the 18 days, about 35 days I believe.
To bad the public schools don't have an e school option for medical leave, I know it's possible.
I don't even understand your point. Your son seemed to be sick, but wasn't diagnosed with anything contagious. He could have gone to school without infecting anyone, but you chose to keep him home, and are upset with the school because they said he had missed too many days? Yet you seem to be arguing that some people should be able to send their sick kids to school because they have no choice.

I have a relative who has cancer and has had a couple surgeries. she was home schooled for a while during her recovery. Was your child in a public school when all of this happened? I'm sure some, if not all, public schools have an option for e-schooling during a medical leave (re your last line).

Re school being day care first and education second - not true, and not sure where you get these ideas. If that were true, the regular school day would be , at a minimum, 8:00-5:00, and before and after care would not be needed.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,434 posts, read 41,608,566 times
Reputation: 46994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
I don't even understand your point. Your son seemed to be sick, but wasn't diagnosed with anything contagious. He could have gone to school without infecting anyone,
Just because he wasn't contagious doesn't mean he should go to school. gallstones are extremely painful and he would never have done well in school under those circumstances.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: here
24,469 posts, read 28,723,874 times
Reputation: 31039
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
Just because he wasn't contagious doesn't mean he should go to school. gallstones are extremely painful and he would never have done well in school under those circumstances.
I can understand that, but I still am not getting her point in general terms, or in relation to her own situation. He didn't have the gall stones for the entire year, right? Once he was dx, it seems like a retroactive note could have cleared his attendance record. She CHOSE to keep him home for the year, which is fine, but I don't understand why she is upset with the school, or what it really has to do with this thread.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,788,166 times
Reputation: 14677
Truancy laws are pretty strict here too, but as far as I can tell, the school districts are very accommodating for legitimate medical issues. DS had a class-mate last year who was out most of last year, and the school bent over backwards to accommodate her educational needs at home. I suspect one must follow the established guidelines, but have never heard of legitimate medical absences being labelled truancy before.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,481 posts, read 26,078,274 times
Reputation: 26426
Myths and Facts (http://sanitizerfacts.com/Services.html - broken link)


Hand sanitizers create drug-resistant super-bacteria.


Not if alcohol is the active ingredient. Why? Alcohol physically destroys germs, experts say. Additionally, there is no scientific evidence that bacteria can develop a resistance to alcohol and create a superbug, says Dr. Didier Pittet, one of the authors of the CDC's hand sanitation guidelines. In fact, alcohol-based hand sanitizers have been shown to kill "even multi-drug resistant pathogens," according to Infection Control Today, a magazine for infection preventionists and their colleagues in operating rooms, sterile processing, environmental services and materials management. That said, less is known about the ingredients in alcohol-free and natural hand sanitizers.

Using alcohol based hand sanitizers will not create bugs that are resistant to alcohol based sanitizers.

ikb0714 and I will take our scientific discussion to DM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,546,743 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I disagree with you that public education is essentially day care, but that's beside the point. Sending sick, contagious kids to school causes teachers to get sick, which interrupts the learning process for the entire class and costs the school money. Moreover, sick children get other children sick, and those children get their parents sick. It's not up to Parent A to make someone else's Parent B miss work, just because Parent A didn't have a contingency plan. Why should it be up to everyone else to deal with the fallout of Child A's illness?
Well, to be fair what I was trying to convey is that, for example,during WW2, when women starting picking up the slack for men at war they started at that point making school serve more than just education. It worked out to have school hours match most factory hours.
Current day, with a lot of 2 working parent families, and or single working parents. These parents favor a school day that is also cohesive with their work schedules. They vote this way. It isn't JUST about education anymore, well, it really hasn't been just about that for a long time. I'm not saying it's right, or it should be or shouldn't be but that it is a part of public school. It may not be even a thought to a parent whom doesn't work and is available 24/7, but for the ones that do, and aren't, school and after school programs are essential. They voice this, and win a lot of favor. Right or wrong this influences the school schedule and options. So, you are going to have to deal with ill kids at school. Even ones you would have kept home, even ones who will make the teachers sick. Being a teacher is like working in a doctors office, most know they will get sick more often, at least at first because kids get sent to school sick. Usually working parents don't keep their kids home unless the fever is present, or vomiting is occurring, they don't usually keep them home worrying about either of these things occurring later in the day, while they are at school. They wait for the call first. You can only miss a certain amount of work, just like school, so working parents have to be more cautious making the "sick" call. Like it or not, it's the truth.
Just stating the obvious, I'm a work at home mom so I have more options. You can always try private schools, or homeschooling for avoiding sick kids if you are a parent or a teacher. But, yelling at those moms isn't going to make them stop bringing them, or be able to afford to stay home more. Might give you some stress relief.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:55 PM
 
11,229 posts, read 9,225,730 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, to be fair what I was trying to convey is that, for example,during WW2, when women starting picking up the slack for men at war they started at that point making school serve more than just education. It worked out to have school hours match most factory hours.
School in the US during World War 2

I know wiki answers is not exactly a scholarly source. But I could not find one shred of information that the school day changed in WW2.

Quote:
Current day, with a lot of 2 working parent families, and or single working parents. These parents favor a school day that is also cohesive with their work schedules. They vote this way.
Yes, THAT is my pet peeve. Tax payer child care is NOT what I want which is why I am there at the school board meetings.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,546,743 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Jeez, I knew I'd set off a firestorm when I said the school is the parents' child care once kids are in school. In point of fact, school is the "defacto" child care arrangement for some parents while school is in session. School takes care of their problem of what to do with the child during those hours. You will note I also said I don't agree that school is for childcare purposes. There's no need to argue this one through time and enternity.

The Arizona laws actually look reasonable to me. It does seem there is some room for flexibility, e.g.

Also:

15 absences is a lot, absent any extenuating circumstances. That is three full weeks.
It is quite a lot for normal circumstances. Plus, like I said there are other options if something out of the ordinary happens. Like what I did, no problem.

Sorry, yea, I guess people get upset about that perception. But, parents work, and parents influence schools. Just how it is. Whether schools want to be part child care centers or not, they still are. Not much to do about that. Parents that don't want that can always homeschool. You drop your child off on the way to work and pick them up after. The fact that they learn there is a nice bonus but a lot of parents would use it even if they didn't learn anything.
They don't have much choice, they don't get paid enough for full time child care and this is free, plus they learn something and eat there.
I don't get offended by that, I know the deal. I still sent my kids to public school for the most part, I just didn't expect them to never encounter sick kids. I was fully aware of the dealio.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:07 PM
 
Location: here
24,469 posts, read 28,723,874 times
Reputation: 31039
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, to be fair what I was trying to convey is that, for example,during WW2, when women starting picking up the slack for men at war they started at that point making school serve more than just education. It worked out to have school hours match most factory hours.
Current day, with a lot of 2 working parent families, and or single working parents. These parents favor a school day that is also cohesive with their work schedules. They vote this way. It isn't JUST about education anymore, well, it really hasn't been just about that for a long time. I'm not saying it's right, or it should be or shouldn't be but that it is a part of public school. It may not be even a thought to a parent whom doesn't work and is available 24/7, but for the ones that do, and aren't, school and after school programs are essential. They voice this, and win a lot of favor. Right or wrong this influences the school schedule and options. So, you are going to have to deal with ill kids at school. Even ones you would have kept home, even ones who will make the teachers sick. Being a teacher is like working in a doctors office, most know they will get sick more often, at least at first because kids get sent to school sick. Usually working parents don't keep their kids home unless the fever is present, or vomiting is occurring, they don't usually keep them home worrying about either of these things occurring later in the day, while they are at school. They wait for the call first. You can only miss a certain amount of work, just like school, so working parents have to be more cautious making the "sick" call. Like it or not, it's the truth.
Just stating the obvious, I'm a work at home mom so I have more options. You can always try private schools, or homeschooling for avoiding sick kids if you are a parent or a teacher. But, yelling at those moms isn't going to make them stop bringing them, or be able to afford to stay home more. Might give you some stress relief.
I don't buy it. If child care was the priority, and education secondary, the school day would be longer, and we'd have fewer SAHM's. There are other reasons for school and work hours being the same, such as daylight. Just out of curiosity, do you have a link to anything that supports your claim? I've just never heard that before. Kids have been going to school for a long time, even when it might have made more sense to keep them home to help on the farm.

Again, the OP's complaint was that a kid who had already thrown up wasn't sent home. No one is saying parents should wait around for their kid to get sick. Only that they keep them home when they obviously are.
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