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Old 02-21-2012, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,555,754 times
Reputation: 7421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Are you still looking for a link that indicates that school started off as day care? You are connecting dots that aren't there.
Well, I'm not sure what to say to this? I'm not thinking you want the real answer, seems like a trick question. I didn't mean to say that it started off as day care. As in Johnny said, lets start a daycare and call it school.
I believe schooling was first introduced for religious teaching then mainly for higher education.
But, I did say that school and day care go hand in hand. It's easy to follow the line throughout history, when woman started working outside the home and divorce started skyrocketing can be good points of navigation.
Although, let's be honest, this isn't what you mean by your insults, right? I must say, you do like a fight but I'm not looking for one. So, no thanks on that.
Sorry everyone, think I'll cut out now and no, it doesn't mean I can't discuss it further, it means I don't think fighting about one small piece of the puzzle over and over again is going to make any difference. You all can use google as well as me. I'm not good at being the link queen. You have my take on it. I'm just getting down who I need to use ignore for and who I don't. I must say, your consistent, that is for sure.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:29 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,239,684 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Let me clarify what I think about school/day care.

I think school should be for education. The school day should be structured in the best interests of education. However, while the kids are in school with compulsory attendance laws, parents do not need another source of day care.
Exactly.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,013 posts, read 98,876,691 times
Reputation: 31456
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, I'm not sure what to say to this? I'm not thinking you want the real answer, seems like a trick question. I didn't mean to say that it started off as day care. As in Johnny said, lets start a daycare and call it school.
I believe schooling was first introduced for religious teaching then mainly for higher education.
But, I did say that school and day care go hand in hand. It's easy to follow the line throughout history, when woman started working outside the home and divorce started skyrocketing can be good points of navigation.
Although, let's be honest, this isn't what you mean by your insults, right? I must say, you do like a fight but I'm not looking for one. So, no thanks on that.
Sorry everyone, think I'll cut out now and no, it doesn't mean I can't discuss it further, it means I don't think fighting about one small piece of the puzzle over and over again is going to make any difference. You all can use google as well as me. I'm not good at being the link queen. You have my take on it. I'm just getting down who I need to use ignore for and who I don't. I must say, your consistent, that is for sure.
I don't get this. My parents b. 1914 and 1921 (that seems so long ago now) both went to school five days a week all day during an era when moms stayed home and barely left the house to go to church!
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:43 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,191,044 times
Reputation: 19651
For my two cents, the line between child care and education has always been hazy in some ways even back when the governess was the teacher and nanny all in one.

Anyway, I wanted to post a very good review of the literature regarding the acquired resistance to antiseptics and disinfectants (aka biocides by bacteria). I have to admit that when I had first heard of the concerns regarding biocide resistance in bacteria it was some 8 or so years ago. Apparently, since then, it has become a cause for concern.

Here is the link to the most exhaustive review of a topic I have ever seen. There are literally hundreds of papers included in the review. Additionally, it is well written, up to date (2009 it was published) and fairly readable considering the subject matter.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Xbszkvde0onRbw

It appears the transfer of resistance to biocides including alcohol and other common hand sanitizer components due to the conjugation of bacteria is a real concern.

"The indirect hazard concerns the transfer of mobile genetic elements (plasmid, transposon etc.) carrying genes conferring resistance to biocide, antibiotic or both, to a naturally susceptible strain via genetic exchange (e.g. during contact with commensal flora)."

And the one new thing that surprised me is that not only have bacteria been shown to gain and transfer resistance to biocides. There are multiple studies that show that resistance to biocides can convey resistance to antibiotics.

"There have been a number of laboratory-based investigations describing a possible linkage between biocide use and antibiotic resistance (Akimitsu et al. 1999, Braoudaki and Hilton 2004a, Braoudaki and Hilton 2004b, Chuanchuen et al. 2001, Russell et al. 1998, Tattawasart et al. 1999, Walsh et al. 2003)......The selective pressure exerted by exposure to biocides has been associated with the increasing incidence of resistance to antibiotics. "

This sums up my position in its entirety and why biocides should be primarily reserved for HCW and not mass usage.

"Biocides are invaluable compounds that provide society with numerous benefits. They play an important role in the control of bacteria in a variety of applications. They are a precious resource that must be managed to avoid any loss in activity for as long as possible. Therefore, in order to preserve the role of biocides in infection control and hygiene, it is paramount to prevent the emergence of bacterial resistance and cross- resistance through their appropriate and prudent use."
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,228,450 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I'm not good at being the link queen. You have my take on it. I'm just getting down who I need to use ignore for and who I don't. I must say, your consistent, that is for sure.
Am I right in saying you're new-ish to the parenting forum here? Assuming that's true, you might not be familiar with the way it works around here which is that the onus of proof or links supporting a claim are on the person making the claim, not on those refuting it. Generally, asking for a link isn't an insult, it's asking someone to back up their statement or POV. Just thought it might need clarification.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:08 PM
 
Location: here
24,473 posts, read 28,761,114 times
Reputation: 31056
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Well, I'm not sure what to say to this? I'm not thinking you want the real answer, seems like a trick question. I didn't mean to say that it started off as day care. As in Johnny said, lets start a daycare and call it school.
I believe schooling was first introduced for religious teaching then mainly for higher education.
But, I did say that school and day care go hand in hand. It's easy to follow the line throughout history, when woman started working outside the home and divorce started skyrocketing can be good points of navigation.
Although, let's be honest, this isn't what you mean by your insults, right? I must say, you do like a fight but I'm not looking for one. So, no thanks on that.
Sorry everyone, think I'll cut out now and no, it doesn't mean I can't discuss it further, it means I don't think fighting about one small piece of the puzzle over and over again is going to make any difference. You all can use google as well as me. I'm not good at being the link queen. You have my take on it. I'm just getting down who I need to use ignore for and who I don't. I must say, your consistent, that is for sure.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to pick fights with you. I take issue when people post something as if it is fact without providing anything to back it up, especially when their whole argument is based on that "fact." It isn't up to us to google. It is up to the person who makes the claim. I am curious, so I did very quickly google. All I found in my 5 minute search is that the school day was shorter in 1845, at least in that particular location. What happened between then and now, or why, I don't know. Really, it doesn't matter. When kids are in school, in my case for 7 hours/day, the "why" of decades past doesn't matter. Of course parents will come to expect those hours, and not have a back up in place, except for emergencies and school holidays. Of course they will complain when a 4-day school week is proposed. None of this means it is ok to send a sick kid to school. And not wanting sick kids in school doesn't mean we expect completely germ free school either. Just a little prevention when possible.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:19 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,293 posts, read 15,063,243 times
Reputation: 20871
Sometimes I think we go a little crazy with the links. If I pull up a thread with 30,000 links on it - I'm just going to click off.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,013 posts, read 98,876,691 times
Reputation: 31456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Sometimes I think we go a little crazy with the links. If I pull up a thread with 30,000 links on it - I'm just going to click off.
I sometimes do just that. However, if you're going to post something as fact, it helps to be able to back it up. And I agree that the one to do the backup should be the person making the claim.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,555,754 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't get this. My parents b. 1914 and 1921 (that seems so long ago now) both went to school five days a week all day during an era when moms stayed home and barely left the house to go to church!
What don't you get? I'm not sure I understand and I haven't mentioned anything before 1940, woman usually didn't work then, they stayed at home and worked. In 1914 they had mainly local schools. Federal involvement wasn't really intact. I imagine in that time frame schools were influence by what the parents considered then. Federal involvement really didn't kick in until Jimmy Carter.
WW2 wasn't until the 40's. Well, 1939 but when woman started working while the husbands were at war is what I mean. That is when large amounts of woman started to work instead of stay at home. You are missing large chunks of time, I skipped large chunks as well because my point wasn't when school actually started in the U.S. It was that society influences what schools do. You can google what influenced the schools in the 1920's if you want.
When woman and men both started working more, and more divorces started happening, society started treating school not as just a place of teaching but also a safe and free place to send their kids while they worked. Part of being able to accept said job depended on the age of children, and if they were at school for the majority of the work day. That made working an affordable option. This is why especially now, with the recession you are going to have more influence on school schedules from working parents. Jobs tolerate less absences, it would only follow suit that schools would as well. Parents can't get the time off so they can't pick up or stay home with the kids as often. Their food and shelter depend on it. You might have even more barfing kids at school in the future. I don't know what else to say. Are you thinking I'm saying this is how it should be? I'm not, I'm just saying I've relaxed about the idea because that is what it is.
I would love a 4 day week, time to go to the doctor apts. dentist apts. etc.
If school wasn't influenced by working parents the gov. would have shaved off a day a week, because it's broke as well. Stay at home moms don't care. But, because society threw a fit about it, it hasn't done that. They threw a fit because they don't get a 4 day work week. They would have to pay extra for care. So, yes, school is also a form of day/care for kids. Some less affluent families depend on it. They are use to depending on it until their kids are able to stay on their own. I'm glad they have it, somewhere safe and secure and is a learning environment but it isn't just about the kids education in reality to me. It really can't be in my opinion. I stand by that.
But, that said, it is my opinion on schools and why more kids go ill. You all know what I think now. So we can go on to other things. I am not wanting to argue my opinion to death. There is no point. You can start a new thread about schools being daycare if you want and have it out.
My response was only to state my opinion on why more kids go to school sick. Their parents work, that's what I think most go even when they don't feel that great or they still have a running nose and no fever.
My school only had a fever policy. Some are different I guess.
I think I've answered it all now. Don't want to be rude and not reply but there really isn't anything else I can say at this point. You asked and this is the best I can do. If it isn't good enough, then it just isn't.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,526 posts, read 26,146,877 times
Reputation: 26519
I do not think the current daily school schedule is designed with any view toward providing day care or consideration of parents' work schedules. It really has not changed so much now compared to when I went to school except for those systems that have adopted year round schedules.

Parents have always had to make accommodations for summer vacation. How is that different from making accommodations for a sick child?

Any family has to have some kind of back up plan to deal with a sick child. I guess what I am seeing is that it is difficult to draw a firm line and say the child can go to school if he is this sick and no more.
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