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Old 02-21-2012, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
Am I right in saying you're new-ish to the parenting forum here? Assuming that's true, you might not be familiar with the way it works around here which is that the onus of proof or links supporting a claim are on the person making the claim, not on those refuting it. Generally, asking for a link isn't an insult, it's asking someone to back up their statement or POV. Just thought it might need clarification.
Ok, but I wasn't giving anything but my opinion. Something so general like that seems odd to link. Doesn't everyone know at our age that woman started working out of the home more during WW2? That we have more parents working with 2 incomes and there are more divorces now? I would think that would be insulting to post links to but I see your point. Yes, this is quite a crowd. It's like being stung by a bunch of bee's. lol
It takes so long to reply to all the posts you get after your one. I think I'll try to stay off hot topics from now on. I didn't realize the bee's were in the school/daycare hive. Ouch, I will now avoid that topic. Didn't mean much by it, seriously, but as I've learned it won't matter if I say that either. Best to avoid, avoid, and more avoiding.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I sometimes do just that. However, if you're going to post something as fact, it helps to be able to back it up. And I agree that the one to do the backup should be the person making the claim.
Ok, noted. Sorry bout that.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,977 posts, read 98,832,039 times
Reputation: 31386
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
What don't you get? I'm not sure I understand and I haven't mentioned anything before 1940, woman usually didn't work then, they stayed at home and worked. In 1914 they had mainly local schools. Federal involvement wasn't really intact. I imagine in that time frame schools were influence by what the parents considered then. Federal involvement really didn't kick in until Jimmy Carter.
WW2 wasn't until the 40's. Well, 1939 but when woman started working while the husbands were at war is what I mean. That is when large amounts of woman started to work instead of stay at home. You are missing large chunks of time, I skipped large chunks as well because my point wasn't when school actually started in the U.S. It was that society influences what schools do. You can google what influenced the schools in the 1920's if you want.
When woman and men both started working more, and more divorces started happening, society started treating school not as just a place of teaching but also a safe and free place to send their kids while they worked. Part of being able to accept said job depended on the age of children, and if they were at school for the majority of the work day. That made working an affordable option. This is why especially now, with the recession you are going to have more influence on school schedules from working parents. Jobs tolerate less absences, it would only follow suit that schools would as well. Parents can't get the time off so they can't pick up or stay home with the kids as often. Their food and shelter depend on it. You might have even more barfing kids at school in the future. I don't know what else to say. Are you thinking I'm saying this is how it should be? I'm not, I'm just saying I've relaxed about the idea because that is what it is.
I would love a 4 day week, time to go to the doctor apts. dentist apts. etc.
If school wasn't influenced by working parents the gov. would have shaved off a day a week, because it's broke as well. Stay at home moms don't care. But, because society threw a fit about it, it hasn't done that. They threw a fit because they don't get a 4 day work week. They would have to pay extra for care. So, yes, school is also a form of day/care for kids. Some less affluent families depend on it. They are use to depending on it until their kids are able to stay on their own. I'm glad they have it, somewhere safe and secure and is a learning environment but it isn't just about the kids education in reality to me. It really can't be in my opinion. I stand by that.
But, that said, it is my opinion on schools and why more kids go ill. You all know what I think now. So we can go on to other things. I am not wanting to argue my opinion to death. There is no point. You can start a new thread about schools being daycare if you want and have it out.
My response was only to state my opinion on why more kids go to school sick. Their parents work, that's what I think most go even when they don't feel that great or they still have a running nose and no fever.
My school only had a fever policy. Some are different I guess.
I think I've answered it all now. Don't want to be rude and not reply but there really isn't anything else I can say at this point. You asked and this is the best I can do. If it isn't good enough, then it just isn't.
The point is, the school day is not much different now than it was in 1920 when my father was in 1st grade.

I don't think it's just the working moms who oppose a 4 day week. Some people think it makes for a long school day for little ones, and interferes with PT jobs and sports practice for older kids. Districts I have heard of who've done this don't have Fridays or Mondays off, either, they choose a mid-week day to discourage absenteeism. The following is a good pro-con article.

http://publications.sreb.org/2008/08...h_calendar.pdf
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
I do not think the current daily school schedule is designed with any view toward providing day care or consideration of parents' work schedules. It really has not changed so much now compared to when I went to school except for those systems that have adopted year round schedules.

Parents have always had to make accommodations for summer vacation. How is that different from making accommodations for a sick child?

Any family has to have some kind of back up plan to deal with a sick child. I guess what I am seeing is that it is difficult to draw a firm line and say the child can go to school if he is this sick and no more.
Yeah, one persons sick is another's allergies. I don't know what to do about that either. I do know my friends that work plan for the summer with programs for working parents or they're kids hang out with their friends that have moms or dads home. I use to watch a boy my sons age all summer while his mom worked. I didn't mind because my son was his friend. She loves the year round school. Easier to find programs for a week here or there for her. They have summer programs for lower income working parents as well.

Don't get me wrong, I do think they should have back up plans and help, I'm just saying a lot of them don't. If their boss is a weenie and they have already missed said number of days they are less likely to stay home another if Johnny has a stuffy nose and no fever or a stomach ache. The ones I know will send them and take the chance that they will make it through.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The point is, the school day is not much different now than it was in 1920 when my father was in 1st grade.
Ok, it could have been, I guess I'm not as smart as I thought. lol
Were there a lot of kids sent sick then? What did your parents say was the reason then? I could be wrong in my assessment of course. I just thought it made sense to most people. I'm gathering it does not.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:47 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,340,215 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Ok, but I wasn't giving anything but my opinion. Something so general like that seems odd to link.
Just put IMO or IMHO. (In My Opinion or In My Humble Opinion.)

You will find that there are some VERY intelligent and highly educated posters with regards to certain topics on this forum. If you write a post that comes across as you stating a fact, and it's wrong, you'll be asked for a link.

We can be grumpy and opinionated.

The good news is we can also be helpful and supportive.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:51 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,233,571 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Ok, if that's what you got out of it, what can I do about it? Nothing much. I really don't want a big brawl with you.
I am not sure why you think my having an opinion that your points make no sense is the same thing as having a big brawl.
Quote:
Try promoting a 4 day school week for your kids public school. See what influences the "no ways" you'll get. See the parents you've never seen come out in droves.
Working parents do influence public education, they need somewhere to put their kids, without the cost. Forget the history, it's still going on. Give it a try.
Right. Which I think is a really poor basis for educational decisions including sending your sick kid to school.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,227,273 times
Reputation: 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Ok, but I wasn't giving anything but my opinion. Something so general like that seems odd to link. Doesn't everyone know at our age that woman started working out of the home more during WW2? That we have more parents working with 2 incomes and there are more divorces now? I would think that would be insulting to post links to but I see your point. Yes, this is quite a crowd. It's like being stung by a bunch of bee's. lol
It takes so long to reply to all the posts you get after your one. I think I'll try to stay off hot topics from now on. I didn't realize the bee's were in the school/daycare hive. Ouch, I will now avoid that topic. Didn't mean much by it, seriously, but as I've learned it won't matter if I say that either. Best to avoid, avoid, and more avoiding.
Sometimes things that are clear to the poster when making a point aren't clear to those reading it. Heaven knows there are times when I think I'm making one point, and someone takes something very different from the post because of how I wrote it!

I agree we don't need to provide a link for every opinion we have (that would be like writing a paper!) but if someone calls us on that opinion it's generally considered good form to support it with some form of evidence or to just say it's solely one's opinion (people generally will leave each other alone if things are presented as opinions only).

It's funny which topics can turn into debates. I wouldn't have thought this would be one, but here we are.

ETA: What Dew said. Much clearer than what I said!!

Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 02-21-2012 at 05:57 PM.. Reason: cross posting
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:54 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,233,571 times
Reputation: 14654
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
I do not think the current daily school schedule is designed with any view toward providing day care or consideration of parents' work schedules. It really has not changed so much now compared to when I went to school except for those systems that have adopted year round schedules.

Parents have always had to make accommodations for summer vacation. How is that different from making accommodations for a sick child?
Summer break, all the in service days, vacation weeks...
Quote:
Any family has to have some kind of back up plan to deal with a sick child.
Yes.

Quote:
I guess what I am seeing is that it is difficult to draw a firm line and say the child can go to school if he is this sick and no more.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Just put IMO or IMHO. (In My Opinion or In My Humble Opinion.)

You will find that there are some VERY intelligent and highly educated posters with regards to certain topics on this forum. If you write a post that comes across as you stating a fact, and it's wrong, you'll be asked for a link.

We can be grumpy and opinionated.

The good news is we can also be helpful and supportive.
Got it! Yea, I am a professor and this crowd does give me a run for my money.. lol I don't really expect links though, I can usually find links supporting both sides of the coin so in the end for me it just comes down to if I believe it or I don't and it's ok if I don't, I just say I don't.
Sometimes I just agree with a logical assessment. I don't really care about multiply links. It really gets long doing the link competitions. I do it when asked though, or explain why I didn't.
I thought I put IMO enough but I can see maybe it wasn't. I didn't realize it was a hot topic either. I do now. Won't mention it again. Promise!!
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