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Old 02-19-2012, 03:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
This is true. I helped my husband research a paper for his sociology class. He chose cyberbullying as his topic, having seen the language and verbal abuse in online games like Halo. The bolded statement is exactly right. Kids don't think of themselves as bullies, but almost all of them (and probably almost all of us too) have done things that would be regarded as bullying.
However -- if that's the case then most kids are going to at some time or another say or do something that's insensitive to another child. If a child points out that another child is short, or chubby, or has a lot of freckles, or there will be time where the entire class wasn't invited to a birthday party and some will be left out. The ultra sensitive child will be hurt -- but it's better to have your child be some what resilient.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
However -- if that's the case then most kids are going to at some time or another say or do something that's insensitive to another child. If a child points out that another child is short, or chubby, or has a lot of freckles, or there will be time where the entire class wasn't invited to a birthday party and some will be left out. The ultra sensitive child will be hurt -- but it's better to have your child be some what resilient.
You are ignoring the other key components, imbalance of power, intimidation, and repetitive nature.
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:55 PM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,371,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I am sorry but you are wrong. If you look at the large anonymous surveys of students that are out there.
Where might I find these anonymous surveys? Is this the "research" you referred to earlier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Most students have engaged in classic behaviors which count as bullying even if the kids do not self identify as "bullies". Which BTW is defined as any form of systematic harassment (verbal, emotional or physical) which involves an imbalance of power between the people involved.
Doesn't change a thing. I still disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
And fyi, again, if a child is being mocked and each student does it "one time at random" that is still considered systematic bullying.
I thought you said earlier...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
FYI, if something happens "ONCE" it is not "bullying".
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
The bolded statement is exactly right. Kids don't think of themselves as bullies, but almost all of them (and probably almost all of us too) have done things that would be regarded as bullying.
Would you care to be more specific?
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:12 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,622,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Would you care to be more specific?
Sure. When I can, I will get my husband's research paper from him and look at the references. I don't remember offhand where I saw that information, but I was surprised enough that it stuck with me.
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:43 PM
 
Location: TX
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Definitely (past) time to define our terms here. A simple look through the dictionary permits us to label something bullying even if it happens just once. Indeed, any successful use of aggression can be considered "bullying", even if it isn't particularly cruel.

bully - definition of bully by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

If we're to call any single act of aggression or hostility "bullying", I most certainly would agree that most (actually, ALL) of us have bullied someone else.

But then, there is another meaning of the term, what I feel is more relevant to this thread:

"1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength."

What is Bullying? Definition, statistics & Information on Bullying

Note "pattern of behavior". This definition requires that a child bully as part of their routine. Being mean to another kid once or twice doesn't cut it. To make the criteria even stricter, this same kid must be (considered) stronger or otherwise more powerful than his/her victims. This is talking about intimidation. Neverminding the notion that there are introverts and extroverts, and that personality remains more or less constant throughout a person's life, it's all part of a very demanding definition!
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:32 AM
 
2,725 posts, read 5,181,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
If so, when? And how would you word it? What sort of advice would you give?

My son still has a long way to go before even preschool. But I got to thinking about it the other day, and a worry popped up: What if my warnings only serve to cause undue apprehension, thus making him an even easier target for bullies? But then, perhaps not being warned at all could be worse!

So I have a worrying problem, as you can see. But I was curious as to what insight some of you might have (particularly those of you have a kid already in school, but I'd like to hear from everyone). What's a parent to do?
For us, it has been about giving our daughter age appropriate opportunities to stand up for herself. We don't discipline her for being assertive but that doesn't mean she gets what she wants.

She is assertive with some children but not with others. With others she just runs away, hides toys, gets between my legs. We don't try to change her feelings of fear into feelings of confidence, e.g., "Don't be scared. Stop being a baby, etc..."

Instead we give her ways to communicate what she may want, e.g. "No hitting. Wait. You need to ask. May I have my toy back? Take this instead. You can play with it when I am finished."

We feel it is more important for her to learn how to communicate with other children rather than go straight to "You are a bully!"
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:59 AM
 
2,725 posts, read 5,181,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
This is true. I helped my husband research a paper for his sociology class. He chose cyberbullying as his topic, having seen the language and verbal abuse in online games like Halo. The bolded statement is exactly right. Kids don't think of themselves as bullies, but almost all of them (and probably almost all of us too) have done things that would be regarded as bullying.
And this is why we try to teach my daughter to communicate in the most respectful but direct way she can because she is not perfect Though her preschool teachers have mentioned that they could have 40 copies of my daughter.

I know that sometimes it can appear that my daughter is trying to scare children on the playground. We told her what to say instead but that still didn't do the trick. We finally had to tell her that if the children were bothering her or scaring her, we needed to go somewhere else. She stopped and played quite well after that though there were times she did want to leave.

She would even get up to children's faces and yell "My toy!" even though that child had no intentions of taking it. We would have to tell her that if she was that worried about her toy, we needed to put it away. She stopped.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Where might I find these anonymous surveys? Is this the "research" you referred to earlier?
I have the citations at work, on my computer as it is part of the training given to all anti-bullying coordinators in NJ now. We have the strictest laws and most complete mandatory training in the nation, largely due to several tragedies that have happened recently. I can pm you the citations if you would like tomorrow.


Quote:
Doesn't change a thing. I still disagree.
That is of course your prerogative. It does not make you correct though.


Quote:
I thought you said earlier...
Bullying is a pattern of behavior but it need not be a single person's pattern. For example in the case of Phoebe Prince, many of the students who bullied her, participated "once" by posting on her FB or tumblr. It is the participation in the larger systematic pattern that happened to that student that made their "single" comments bullying as well as the intimidation and imbalance of power.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,371,847 times
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Yes, I'd like to read through anything concluding that most kids eventually bully another kid at some point in their lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Bullying is a pattern of behavior but it need not be a single person's pattern. For example in the case of Phoebe Prince, many of the students who bullied her, participated "once" by posting on her FB or tumblr. It is the participation in the larger systematic pattern that happened to that student that made their "single" comments bullying as well as the intimidation and imbalance of power.
That's what "a pattern of behavior" is, is it not? One person's pattern of behavior. I'd certainly call it WRONG, what the students in your example did. But I still wouldn't call it bullying unless these same kids did this sort of thing routinely. "Harrassment" is enough of a label.

Either way, the risk of saying "Most kids bully another kid at some point in their lives" is that it could be taken to mean most kids actually go through a phase where they take on the stereotypical bullying role. I believe there's a difference between kids who do what you described above just once and kids who do this (or more) on a regular basis.

A kid who routinely walks up to another kid unprovoked and kicks him on a regular basis is someone I feel I can generalize quite well.
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post

A kid who routinely walks up to another kid unprovoked and kicks him on a regular basis is someone I feel I can generalize quite well.
And the problem with the above statement is that is primarily a myth and stops people from dealing with the far more common issue of bullying.

I have been a teacher for pushing 10 years now. We have never had a case of the type of bullying, where one "bully" is physically hurting another child aka "the victim" on a regular basis.

What we have had is numerous cases of children being emotionally, or verbally abused by groups of other students. Choosing to paint a "bully" as the definition above belittles what these other students have been through.

Additionally, if you look at the cases of suicide by children suffering from bullying, it is almost never of the physical variety.

Finally, I wish all parents would realize that even their children are more than capable of participating in bullying behavior. I know this first hand, my daughter was bullied at one point in grade school, and also bullied another child during the same time period. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to describe to parents why the behavior of their children is bullying and have them tell me "but they never hit anyone" or "but it was only a few times" because they have an image in their head of a "bully" like the one you describe above and cannot reconcile it with their child.
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