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Children do not receive dirty looks "just for existing".
It is the parents who changed the meaning of the word "existing" and who expect everyone else to put up with that type of "existence".
So there: if children today behaved in the "be-seen-but-not-heard" fashion of yesterday, most people would not even notice them, let alone start complaining about them. But kids today are raised on a diet of permanent adult attention, egalitarianism and sense of importance and you'd better be sure that even the most "well-behaved" of them will make themselves both seen AND heard. Sometimes LOUDLY.
If they are not heard, they will make sure they re-direct your attention from anything adult-centered to THEM - in a jiffy.
It is why you have so many people today complaining about children in public spaces.
I should add that, as a mother of two small and generally well-behaved children, especially when in public spaces, I am yet to have met in America ONE SINGLE adult who has given my children or any other children around the "dirty look". This was even in situations that I believed called for dirty looks (they had their moments). In fact, I was hoping there would be some dirty looks so I could get some community help in my quest to discipline these children. Feeling ashamed goes a long way.
All I ever got though were indulging smiles along the lines of "that's OK, this is normal, kids are kids, oh how adorable, we should all smile and go goo-goo over them, regardless". And trust me, in those moments, they were not "goo-goo" at all - though admittedly my standards are somewhere between high and very high.
What I have seen from where I stand is a huge cultural pressure to like kids no matter how they are, to spend a lot of time focusing on them regardless of how many adults you have gathered in one space and how much adult conversation could be had if everyone was not constantly talking about the kids and focusing on them to the detriment of everything else.
So I am yet to see one dirty look. I would have plenty to give away though but I have learned to play the cultural game and just smile indulgently even when my brain cries "OB-NO-XIOUS"!
I'm not missing your point - this is exactly what you said. Again, moaning and hand-wringing because 'the village' did not give you or your kids dirty looks when you felt it was warranted.
And some people are not logical, even though they espouse reinstating logic classes-
The op was about restaurants that have instituted a no child under 6 rule. I see no problem with that that is their right. It is also a help to those who really do not want a child around.
What I feel is illogical about some people, is they expect to go to "X" restaurant and have no children around. Depending on time of day and type of establishment that is just laughable.
There are some restaurants that we have frequented that rarely if ever have a child on the premises. Yes these are more expensive, have dress codes, and some are private supper clubs. But they do exist and do not have a hard fast rule of no kids, it just doesn't seem appropriate to those who dine there to bring along their children. Look for them --they are hiding in plain sight. We also enjoy going to adult only B&B's, as well as family centered beach resorts.
Appropriate timing, appropriate dressing, appropriate speech, appropriate behavior-this has nothing to do with parenting styles, old fashioned or not. It is just logical.
Some parents are so harried and busy, as a certain poster loves to point out, that they don't feel they have enough adult time.(And thus need these adult only restaurants for stimulating, intellectual, conversation--which they say is not possible because the other adults are too child centered.) They even think that grandparents should be there to take the kids any time they want to drop them off. Or expect the community to take the kids off their hands, and take over their education, health, welfare, and recreation. Even if my parents had been close, and available, I would never have presumed to make them default babysitters.
My advice would be to find a nearby university, join a lecture series, cultivate friendships with adults with like interests, get a babysitter and go out with them. (not at 5:30 when kids may be eating) I do not see the problem. Maybe they should also send the kids off to boarding school, so that they could have the actual marriage time that they crave.
This crazy time passes faster than you would think, and some of you will look back and wish it had lasted longer. When your beloved kids grow up and move away you will miss the time you had talking to them and singing with them in the car on the way to a music lesson, or sports activity.
Unless you are clinically depressed, being happy is a choice- If you aren't happy where or how you live--change it. That is only logical.
Interesting article on cnn, some restuarants are banning kids under 6 from eating there in favor of a peaceful setting.
I have no problem with this. I don't think its meant to insult, rather provide a quiet place to eat. Seems to be mixed reactions from both camps.
What do you think?
I'm great with it and I would love to find a grocery that is adult only so I don't have to wade through all the screaming child specials when I am trying to gather my groceries.
I'm great with it and I would love to find a grocery that is adult only so I don't have to wade through all the screaming child specials when I am trying to gather my groceries.
First, traditional parenting DOES MEAN rebellion in today's parenting climate.
Second, "the way it has been done" is not "knee jerk reaction".
There is a reason why things have come to be "done the way they have been done". Usually evolutionary. There is a reason why those "things" have become a "habit".
BECAUSE THEY WORKED over very long periods of time; because they were time tested; because they have been expressions of progressive, slow, evolutionary adaptations to our real life environments - instead of over-night revolutions proposed by ideologues who flagrantly fail to understand human nature and sheer reality.
Because it made community life possible and because they acknowledged that humans are inherently social creatures, tribal creatures.
Today we do not have a sense of community anymore and this hurts our inner wiring.
We have become mere competing, self-absorbed atoms - to the detriment of our own well-being (the entire modern world is hooked on some kind of addiction of some sort).
I will never be "eternally grateful" for that, not even "slightly tolerant" of that.
I will prefer the wisdom of time and community - even if it is very hard to try to live by the principles of "wisdom" and "community" in a world that has virtually discarded these ideas altogether. Hence my posts with usually critical tone.
The only reason I post them is because I believe it might at least remind some people of that way of thinking we are gradually losing - to the detriment of our very own best interest as human beings.
Social evolution is a great thing. We look at the past, keep the things that work, and improve on others.
When you use the word "community" are you referring to the one you chose to move away from, or the one you continually refer to in extremely disparaging terms?
Social evolution is a great thing. We look at the past, keep the things that work, and improve on others.
When you use the word "community" are you referring to the one you chose to move away from, or the one you continually refer to in extremely disparaging terms?
Are you arguing that people in the modern world actually share a sense of community? Where is it? How do you define it? Then you probably don't know what real community feels like.
In fact that sense of community is being lost EVERYWHERE at this very moment. Some places are well ahead in the process, others are trailing but catching up.
The US, then Great Britain and other anglo countries are ahead of everyone else - with the US being the top commander. Many others think it is great to follow - all while their rates of addiction, depression and all sorts of anti-social behavior and modern ills are going up.
Just because you fail to make the connections doesn't mean those trends are not happening.
But you're not alone. Many people today are trained to react like the proverbial fool who asks you: "Show me the moon!". You show him the moon and all he does is look at your index finger dumbfounded while asking "Where is it? I don't see it?".
If you take his head and actually move his eyes to the spot, he asks you to bring him a study that confirms that is indeed the moon.
Here's to ending this conversation with a "community-warmed" "whatever!!!".
I often thought that there should be "no children" sections in restaurants, like in the past with "smoking" and "no smoking" areas.
I'm ok with it.
I like this idea.
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Exactly
