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Old 03-04-2012, 10:21 PM
Location: North Carolina
1,569 posts, read 1,846,301 times
Reputation: 1608


I agree

Old 03-04-2012, 10:58 PM
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
9,478 posts, read 13,207,306 times
Reputation: 10137
I don't know about anyone else, but I blame the self. We all have choices including our kids. Misdeeds are no one else's fault but the self that did them.

Parents may or may not be culpable for their children's behavior. We often are quick to blame 'the parents' for not raising their kids right.

Look- We have a duty to teach them right from wrong, the golden rule and other ethos, but in the end it is the self that chooses.

BUT- I have to agree that I have witnessed more parents getting involved with defending their children in the face of their poor decisions or performance. Trying to force a change in the teachers grade, or overturn the coaches decision to pull Sally or Johnny from the line-up because another child is either performing better or more deserving.

Frankly it's very rampant, and repugnant.
Old 03-04-2012, 11:09 PM
Location: California
28,845 posts, read 29,418,077 times
Reputation: 23671
I believe in discipline but I also believe in a gradual transference of power over personal self. At age 15 you are 3 years away from being a legal adult. Sure, you could play the power card but what benefit comes of it? If that's what matters to you then go for it. But you could also go the other way and let some decisions be made by the teen, it's just as much of a learning experience. Isn't learning what discipline is about?

As far as religion goes, you can lead by example but people need to come to it on their own. Many people ditch it as soon as the front door slams behind them. Usually because it's been forced on them against their will, when their will was trying to be exercised.
Old 03-04-2012, 11:54 PM
Location: Wherever life takes me.
5,930 posts, read 5,912,508 times
Reputation: 2995
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Actually they were not working for text girl (who has no kids) and several others. Another thing we don'r permit - texting in the presence of real live people - just plain rude!

They have worked FINE. She WAS testing the limits, was corrected, punished and apologetic.

She is strong willed and tests boundaries. We stuck to our guns and my husband does not plan anymore parenting Va-Cas!

Im sorry ban me for jacking and making this about me i dont care but she took two stabs at me and its not cool with me....needs to be brought to light.

Last edited by txtqueen; 03-04-2012 at 11:59 PM.. Reason: Ban me i dont care....i dont like rude people who take stabs specifially at me...see you all in 8 days if i get banned.
Old 03-05-2012, 12:46 AM
Location: Hyrule
8,381 posts, read 8,920,444 times
Reputation: 7406
Picking fights on here isn't productive. Neither is carrying on arguments from one thread to the other just to argue some more. Steering a child into a sport or activity, watching them become active and successful in it just to use it as a tool to control them with by threatening to take it away all the time is gross, it was in your last thread and it is in this one, IMO!

I am the complete opposite you with parenting in every way and damn proud I am! My teens are mellow, respectful, without being threatened or manipulated by me. The only thing I lack in my home is DRAMA. My parents were mellow as well, I was always respectful to them.

My job seems much easier than yours and I seem to enjoy parenting and my kids a hell of a lot more than you do. What does that say, I don't really care my ocean is calm and I enjoy it that way. My kids cus about as much as I do, I'm not religious so it's easy to spare the rod. People are different, that is whats great about America, we can be. I don't have to agree with you, as a matter of fact you have the right make me ill with the way you parent and I have the same with you. Let this goooooooooooooooooooo..............

I can tell by you carrying this on even after you've been locked on another thread that you have a need to control everything. Good luck with that on here, you won't get far! You aren't dealing with a bunch of kids.
You can reply but don't expect one back, your trolling makes me nauseated. Movin onnnn!

Last edited by PoppySead; 03-05-2012 at 01:11 AM.. Reason: Sorry :( But dangit!
Old 03-05-2012, 03:32 AM
5,599 posts, read 4,574,644 times
Reputation: 7354
Discipline is very important. Sometimes we'd have to whack them on the butt, but that would be just an attention getter - we always tried to explain WHY we did it as simplistically as possible. Like, after she stopped crying, I'd explain to my three-year-old why I whacked her on the butt with my hand when she ran out in the street to chase a ball. What hurts more, a little spank or getting hit by a car and going to the hospital? Were my daughters ever disrespectful in their teen years? Heck, yes. However, after they "mouthed off", or called me a "b**ch", it was followed qu8ickly with , "Oh Mom, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it." My mother would have slapped me so hard, I wouldn't have had the chance to apologize, but I always tried to be open to communication with my girls if it was done civilly. They expected the same from me. It was a mutual respect thing.

Last edited by Mrs. Skeffington; 03-05-2012 at 04:02 AM..
Old 03-05-2012, 06:09 AM
10,904 posts, read 8,286,772 times
Reputation: 13828
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Discipline is good and necessary, but there is such a thing as over doing it. Try to control them too much and they'll rebel.
Control *teaches* nothing. Good behavior from a robot helps them live in the world not at all.
Old 03-05-2012, 06:17 AM
10,904 posts, read 8,286,772 times
Reputation: 13828
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but I blame the self. We all have choices including our kids. Misdeeds are no one else's fault but the self that did them.
No way. I have a friend whose 5 year old whines until Mom is not around. Then he goes into what everyone else expects of me mode. You KNOW he doesn't get away with that in preschool. He knows that is not going to fly with me. But when Mom is around, you can expect demands, whines, pouts and all manner of carry on. Because she accepts it. It is foolish to think that little children with no experience in the world are not molded by the expectations of their parents and other people around them. Because they most certainly are. If you on the one hand accept their behavior with your behavior then try to tell them to behave differently, it is not going to work. Children understand and respond to your actions.
Parents may or may not be culpable for their children's behavior. We often are quick to blame 'the parents' for not raising their kids right.

Look- We have a duty to teach them right from wrong, the golden rule and other ethos, but in the end it is the self that chooses.
Eventually if a person was raised poorly and the unfortunate ******* winds up in the world without an upbringing, this is the case. That 25 whatever year old has to pull themselves up by their boot straps and figure what's up. But a kid? Not so much.

Last edited by JustJulia; 03-05-2012 at 08:52 AM..
Old 03-05-2012, 06:19 AM
2,726 posts, read 4,111,343 times
Reputation: 1923
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Control *teaches* nothing. Good behavior from a robot helps them live in the world not at all.
Agree. They need to learn self-control. I have managed to do this by giving my daughter choices. I have learned how to be creative.

When I hear how children need to be controlled, my guess is that they were put in an environment where they needed a lot of guidance. However, the parent is not willing or able to give it. If they do, it is in the form of "discipline" which is really meanness.

It is not enough to want a loving, kind, respectful and functional family. This is where nothing is done.
It is not enough to try to have one. This is where we try to control each other and put this responsibility on others.
I have to make it happen. The responsibility lies with me.

Last edited by crisan; 03-05-2012 at 06:33 AM..
Old 03-05-2012, 07:12 AM
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 8,583,730 times
Reputation: 9458
I always thought of parenting as walking with my kids down a walkway with high bushes on either side. Within those preset parameters, there was leeway for behavior - but they couldn't step over the bushes.

We had strict rules - No lying. No stealing. No one's rights superceded anyone else's. If you did it, you were responsible for the outcome. Mom and Dad's decisions were final - if we said "No" it was no - no discussion. If we said "we'll see" they understood that it meant that "yes" depended on things like 'will we have enough money after we shop to get a treat". If a kid was in the wrong, he would have to choose to correct his/her behavior, or choose to be punished for continuing that behavior. When the children misbehaved, we counted - "1" meant that they were walking into dangerous areas, "2" meant that they were pushing the envelope, and "3" was their last chance to amend their behavior before they were punished, swiftly and inexorably. After a very few times, they rarely got past "1".

Their dad was always into rationally explaining his actions/results based on their choices; but as they got older it bored the kids - they knew that what they had done was wrong, and they knew why. They also knew that punishment was swift, sure, and always relevant. Once our kids got past a certain age, spankings and restrictions were no longer applicable or relevant.

I actually preferred my children as teens; their being able to communicate and comprehend things was such a relief. When my kids became teenagers, our house was the "safe house" - not only did we gain foster children, but neighborhood kids and our kids' friends would come to our house for rational discussion of their problems, and a thoughtful, non-judgemental, and practical resolution of them. Our kids (and foster kids) used to tell their friends, "Come talk to my mom and dad - they'll help you figure it out!" - and they themselves were practical and rational people. In our opinion, the most important things you can teach your children are honesty (with themselves as well as with others), self-discipline, self-reliance, and personal responsibility. As our children became teens, they worked outside the home and still maintained their chores and responsibilities; they gradually needed less and less discipline, punishment, and controls because they were becoming adults, and the consequences of their choices became their own rewards/punishments.

When DD went to college, she became a Residents' Assistant her second year, because she had learned rational behavior and consequences and was able to teach them to others. I met a lot of the students for whom she was responsible; some came from homes where responsibility was not enforced, some came from broken homes where little attention was paid them - or they were sources of shuttlecock contention between their parents - while some came from strictly controlled households.

The former group usually left school because they could not handle the pressures and did not see why they had to show up for classes or do the work; after all, their parents had never made them. The broken-home kids were constantly struggling to live up to the ideals their parents had, dealing with the emotions of keeping mom and dad from visiting on the same weekend, or dealing with two sets of parents with two very different ideas of what their children "should" be instead of letting them be themselves.

The latter group were always the ones with the most trouble - they would rebel once they got into college, refusing to go to church, drinking because they were told they couldn't, taking drugs, eventually having to choose whether to stay in college and take mom and dad's money or to strike out on their own, away from all of the strictly enforced guidelines their parents demanded. Some parents even tried to choose their children's majors, even their classes for them, forcing them into a mold that they did not want and with which they were miserably unhappy. These kids usually ended up either totally rebelling and choosing their own education and career paths, or drinking, doing drugs, and being kicked out, or getting pregnant - usually with someone their parents despised - and leaving school. Two finally had the courage to 'come out' - and totally humiliated their strictly controlling parents, who were religiously and morally opposed to the gay lifestyle.

What I'm saying is this - eventually that narrow pathway has to widen out as the children grow to maturity, they have to be allowed to gradually make their own choices and their own decisions, until they can stand on their own and accept responsibility for their own lives and choices. Too much control in their later life is as bad as too little control in their childhood. Our children and fosters respect us and love us still, only now it is with an adult love and respect, where we each cheer each other on, support each others' decisions, help each other unquestioningly, and are happy for each others' successes.
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