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Old 03-05-2012, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 1,725,566 times
Reputation: 2352
There a some fantastic replies on this thread!

To answer your question, OP: No, discipline is not a dirty word in our house and no, we are not afraid to parent. I consider discipline to be a form of teaching and think there is a lot more to it than merely getting compliance with rules.

That being said, there are at least two other threads active right now that discuss all of the different approaches to discipline. There is more than one philosophy and set of strategies that can lead to respectful, successful, and kind behavior in children, teens and adult children. I can disagree with battles you choose to pick or approaches you choose to take (and you can disagree with mine as well) and still agree that our end goals are the same.

 
Old 03-05-2012, 07:17 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
20,878 posts, read 18,404,241 times
Reputation: 29236
I initially closed the thread because it seemed like the OP had said her piece, but apparently not.

This is an open forum, so disagreement is allowed; however, please keep this conversation civil. Thanks!
 
Old 03-05-2012, 11:22 AM
 
10,897 posts, read 9,080,518 times
Reputation: 15720
I was honestly astounded to receive advice telling me that the expectations of kindness, respect and a degree of gratitude on the part of a fifteen year old, were out of line.

I know that teens test boundaries. And, as parents it is to show them what they are and where they are.

That was all. I went on to this forum, because I did not want to speak this frankly with friends about my daughter's behavior, which I see as violating her privacy.

Honestly, I think some of you are off kilter.
If left to his own device, my eldest would eschew college for being a member of a Punk Rock band.
He would also attend the local public school where there have been not one, but THREE machete attacks is the past year.But he is easy.

My daughter tests and tests.

I certainly understand testing limits. I did the same as a teenager, and in my early 20s, I dated a man who was in a punk rock band. My screen name might give you a hint.
However, I did the AFTER graduating from college,

This is not about politics, Left vs Right, and indeed; my personal political beliefs might not be what you expect.

But kindness, respect for others, compassion, and general ability to treat others as you would wish to be treated - that does not magically happen. It happens when it is taught at the age when a child is most vulnerable to narcissistic ideations. And that's where a life time of misery begins - not only for the child, and for society.

Abdication of ones parental responsibilities is irresponsible and it's not a gift to anyone.
 
Old 03-05-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: TX
5,926 posts, read 2,224,304 times
Reputation: 2556
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Honestly, I think some of you are off kilter.
If left to his own device, my eldest would eschew college for being a member of a Punk Rock band.
See, that's the thing. We happen to believe we can instill values, nurture a genuine interest in education, and encourage our kids so they won't have the inclination to choose being a member of a punk rock band over college.

"his own devices" are not his own creation. Not necessarily.
 
Old 03-05-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: On a Voyage Around the Sun
21,563 posts, read 12,143,841 times
Reputation: 23043
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I was honestly astounded to receive advice telling me that the expectations of kindness, respect and a degree of gratitude on the part of a fifteen year old, were out of line.
I wouldn't expect too much gratitude from a 15-year old, Sheena. I think true gratitude comes with age and maturity. They need to experience life a little more before they truly understand that they HAVE something to be grateful for.

I know my sons were a WHOLE lot more grateful for what we provided for them once they were working full time and out on their own. I noted one started cleaning his plate, or asking for a container for left-overs, when we went out to eat. When I asked him why he said, "Because I know how much it COST now."

Edit to add: Of course they should be saying "Thank you" from a VERY early age.
 
Old 03-05-2012, 11:55 AM
 
10,083 posts, read 11,022,699 times
Reputation: 9135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Let's not attack each other.
I really don't see where you are reading "attack" into the comments on this thread. Just because people think you are wrong about something that doesn't mean they are attacking you. If the comments hit a little hard maybe you should give them some more thought. You don't have to take all the suggestions but you should think about them.
 
Old 03-05-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: here
16,932 posts, read 13,881,698 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I was honestly astounded to receive advice telling me that the expectations of kindness, respect and a degree of gratitude on the part of a fifteen year old, were out of line.

I know that teens test boundaries. And, as parents it is to show them what they are and where they are.

That was all. I went on to this forum, because I did not want to speak this frankly with friends about my daughter's behavior, which I see as violating her privacy.

Honestly, I think some of you are off kilter.
If left to his own device, my eldest would eschew college for being a member of a Punk Rock band.
He would also attend the local public school where there have been not one, but THREE machete attacks is the past year.But he is easy.

My daughter tests and tests.

I certainly understand testing limits. I did the same as a teenager, and in my early 20s, I dated a man who was in a punk rock band. My screen name might give you a hint.
However, I did the AFTER graduating from college,

This is not about politics, Left vs Right, and indeed; my personal political beliefs might not be what you expect.

But kindness, respect for others, compassion, and general ability to treat others as you would wish to be treated - that does not magically happen. It happens when it is taught at the age when a child is most vulnerable to narcissistic ideations. And that's where a life time of misery begins - not only for the child, and for society.

Abdication of ones parental responsibilities is irresponsible and it's not a gift to anyone.
what they act like as teens and the adults they will become are 2 different things. Keep teaching, and eventually with some maturity, it will kick in. Be overbearingly strict, and they will rebel and do anything and everything to pi$$ you off.
 
Old 03-05-2012, 12:54 PM
 
8,012 posts, read 3,783,553 times
Reputation: 9551
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I was honestly astounded to receive advice telling me that the expectations of kindness, respect and a degree of gratitude on the part of a fifteen year old, were out of line.

I know that teens test boundaries. And, as parents it is to show them what they are and where they are.

That was all. I went on to this forum, because I did not want to speak this frankly with friends about my daughter's behavior, which I see as violating her privacy.
That was considerate of you. As with any online forum, you have to cherry pick what works for you and what doesn't.

I hope I am not offending you when I say that I think you are turning a defensive deaf ear to some posters' thoughts. (I was the QUEEN of this when I first started on forums. It was an unmoderated board, and I finally had to get slapped with a verbal clue by four before I "got it". So I know how it can feel like you are being attacked for your thoughts.)

I agree with you completely that discipline is necessary and good. Limist setting absolutely 100% appropriate, necessary and in her best interest around speaking to you with respect, sans 'tude, etc..

What I think is going wrong is that you are trying to set TOO MANY limits, and have entered the realm of micromanagement which is only going to engender kick back, resentment and rebellion.

Take church for example. You qualify her as "lazy". I wonder if you called her that to her face. That is a huge cooperation killer if you did. Also it would be helpful for you to recognize that the majority of teens don't get enough sleep, so helping her to find times to catch up on sleep is a Good Thing. Also it doesn't sound like she is eschewing the religion, just the church time. Is there ANY church in the world that does not offer services at various times? My church growing up had a Sat afternoon service, a 7:30, 9:00, 10:30 and 12:00 service. As long as you got your communion in before 1:00p it counted or something. Could you negotiate a different time? You clearly feel strongly about the GOING, could you give her control about the WHEN?


Quote:
Honestly, I think some of you are off kilter.
If left to his own device, my eldest would eschew college for being a
member of a Punk Rock band.
I wish my mother had let me grow up before I had to go to college. I might have actually shown up. And studies.

Quote:
He would also attend the local public school where there have been not one, but THREE machete attacks is the past year.But he is easy.

My daughter tests and tests.
There are three reasons for testing:

1. Rebellion against overly controlling limits
2. Ineffective limits.
3. Inconsistent limits

I am guessing at #1 in your case.
 
Old 03-05-2012, 01:08 PM
 
10,083 posts, read 11,022,699 times
Reputation: 9135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Abdication of ones parental responsibilities is irresponsible and it's not a gift to anyone.
I agree 100% with the comment above. I think that you are confusing responsible parenting with controlling the child. Disciplining a child does not mean that the child will do as you would like them to do 100% of the time. Disciplining a child means teaching them the things that are important and how to figure out what actually is important.

When my middle son (15) was in 6-7th grade he had long hair. Long enough that he looked like a girl. I hate long hair on boys. Really, really hate it. I am the parent and if I wanted to make him cut his hair I could have done it.

I did not make him cut his hair. He is in marching band and every member with hair below the hat line has to have their hair put up before games and before competitions. Eventually he decided that it wasn't worth it to keep his hair long and he asked to have it cut. He now wears it fairly short and asks to have it cut regularly.

What purpose would have been served by forcing hm to have his hair cut because I didn't like it long? I really really didn't like it but it is just hair. It is not lack of discipline to allow a child to choose how to wear his hair. Is is not an abdication of parental responsibility. It is a choice that I made that it just really isn't worth it to fight over hair. Hair really is just hair.

The same goes for your daughter. I would continue to insist on respectful behavior from her (it's not ok to swear at you and it's not ok to be nasty to you). However, on the things that are simply your preference, allow her some control over her life. You do not have to control every aspect of her life to be a good parent. Allowing her to choose things that she prefers is not abdicating your parental responsibilities. There are times that a parent needs to tell a 15 year old that they need to do what the parent says, because the parent says so. But not everything falls into that category.
 
Old 03-05-2012, 02:06 PM
 
2,123 posts, read 2,272,135 times
Reputation: 2034
Amen! And the way that you know you have done your job well is that they can make commendable choices without being forced too. A 15yr old is so close to being an adult that they DO need to be allowed to make some choices on their own, even if it is the wrong one or one the parent doesn't agree with. They have to learn how to handle decision making and dealing with consequences for their decision. If someone is always making those choices and those decisions for them, they will never learn those important life skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I agree 100% with the comment above. I think that you are confusing responsible parenting with controlling the child. Disciplining a child does not mean that the child will do as you would like them to do 100% of the time. Disciplining a child means teaching them the things that are important and how to figure out what actually is important.

When my middle son (15) was in 6-7th grade he had long hair. Long enough that he looked like a girl. I hate long hair on boys. Really, really hate it. I am the parent and if I wanted to make him cut his hair I could have done it.

I did not make him cut his hair. He is in marching band and every member with hair below the hat line has to have their hair put up before games and before competitions. Eventually he decided that it wasn't worth it to keep his hair long and he asked to have it cut. He now wears it fairly short and asks to have it cut regularly.

What purpose would have been served by forcing hm to have his hair cut because I didn't like it long? I really really didn't like it but it is just hair. It is not lack of discipline to allow a child to choose how to wear his hair. Is is not an abdication of parental responsibility. It is a choice that I made that it just really isn't worth it to fight over hair. Hair really is just hair.

The same goes for your daughter. I would continue to insist on respectful behavior from her (it's not ok to swear at you and it's not ok to be nasty to you). However, on the things that are simply your preference, allow her some control over her life. You do not have to control every aspect of her life to be a good parent. Allowing her to choose things that she prefers is not abdicating your parental responsibilities. There are times that a parent needs to tell a 15 year old that they need to do what the parent says, because the parent says so. But not everything falls into that category.
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