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First of all, apologies, but I don't have time to read ALL 27 pages.. I have, however read the first couple and the last 6... that being said, here's my two cents and if someone already covered this, then, apologies again!
My daughter was also very difficult as a child and a teenager... Some things we tried worked, and some, not so much.
Anger seems to be the acting out currency... but it tends to hide the hurt and pain behind it. At the same time there needs to be boundaries set and enforced.
If she's screaming or out of control, you must stay calm. Just tell her you'll discuss ___________ topic when she can be calm. If she gets upset and disrespectful and rude when you are driving her somewhere. Stop the car and tell her it's a safety issue. You can't concentrate on your driving when she is so upset and loud. Then sit quietly and wait for silence. No need to speak. When she's quiet, then you start driving. If she starts up again when the car is in motion, repeat. If either you or she is late because of this, don't worry. It won't happen very many times before she gets it.
Experiencing a change of plans that required an overnight stay and the potential for missing a cheerleading gig.. well, stuff happens. It's no one's fault. Kids need to be able to handle disappointment. It's part of life - and it's a skill that breeds resiliency in young people - something that will be very valuable as she gets older.
Everyone in a family has a job and responsibility. Parents work - whether in the home or out of it, they have a responsibility to make sure the home runs smoothly and there is money to support whatever lifestyle one has.
It is the kids' job to go to school, get good grades, keep rooms reasonable, help around the house and in the kitchen and after age 12, (we picked 12 because it is the year Jewish children become adults.) they are perfectly capable of doing their own laundry.
We had a yearly budget for their clothes - They got 3/4 of it before school started and the other 1/4 in the spring. Once that was gone, it was gone. (We helped with shoes, and coats). They had to learn to choose between a designer pair of jeans or buying a slightly used designer pair in a thrift store, or a non-name brand new pair elsewhere. It didn't matter to us where they purchased their clothes, as long as they liked what they got and I liked what they got. After the first go-round of not having many clothes to wear, they quickly learned to adapt to plan b and c.
This clothes part worked.. and we'd had that in place for years before her behavior escalated... then we went to the next step:
TV, cell phones, going out, visiting friends are all privileges. They are not rights. If they take care of the jobs at home (clearly spelled out), they earn points and can spend them any way they want. X number of hours of TV, or Cell phone calls, or a friend over... etc. They earn the points, they choose the reward out of a list. Once we got this started, it really worked well!
They weren't paid money for jobs, grades or work they did at home. Allowance was simply a portion of money that was attached to basic "job well done" and a "we're glad you're part of this team" mentality.
Parents are parents. Their role is to raise responsible children. Kids who can cook, clean, take care pf the pets, water the garden, weed, do laundry, budget money, etc. This is not abuse. Can you imagine the value young people will have when they find a potential life partner who can actually do his own laundry, budget his own money, have a job, clean house and cook?
Seems like some celebrities and other pretty people take pride in their own helplessness. This is not a good thing, but I digress...
We sat down with our daughter and wrote out a contract spelling out our responsibilities to her and hers to us. At that point we were at our wits end. She was constantly skipping school, forging my signature, stole and wrecked our car and blamed it on a neighbor... etc. If she didn't sign, we were prepared to put her in foster care. Extreme? Yes. Were we ready to do that? Yes.
It was clear she wasn't happy in our home, so we loved her enough to provide that alternative, should she choose that - wanting desperately to get the train back on the tracks of her life, no matter what. We knew the longer we waited, the higher the stakes were going to be and that just wasn't an option.
Her eyes got very big and she said that she knew some kids in foster homes and they had to do quite a bit of house-work. Yes, I know. I told her that she would need to pull her own weight and change her attitude if she wanted to continue to live with us, or go somewhere where she wouldn't have to deal with living with us as a family.
She knew the work we were asking of her was at a reasonable level, compared to what some of her friends had to do in the foster situation.
The upshot is she signed the contract and changed her attitude. Were things perfectly maahvelous? Not really, but they were so much better. She began to take pride in earning her points so she could go to someone's house to spend the night.. or trade that for several hours of TV the following week.
We had to be consistent and make sure things were monitored... but we began to have more fun and could talk about stuff that wasn't important.. like vacations, or what books we were reading, or new hair styles, or how fun it was to watch our cat play "fetch." Gradually the ice melted and there was enough improvement. We as parents felt more empowered and not nearly as helpless.
One other thing... diet is really important. Fruits and veggies. Plenty of rest, water and limit sugar as much as possible. That can have a huge impact on one's behavior as well....
After getting my cup of coffee and sitting down to read this interesting thread, I have to agree with this post quite a bit. I think that everyone agrees that preteens/teens can be so difficult due to hormones, growing independence, etc. How you deal with disrespect and rudeness is a totally difference issue. Sometimes I think that "hormones" is a convenient excuse to excuse some truly horrid behavior that should be corrected. When disrespect starts happening outside the house, I think it can lead to some heartbreak down the road for the young adult.
Secondly, I think that many of you were pretty harsh on Sheena for insisting that the family go to church. Personally, I on the fence about religion as is my husband but we started going to church as a family quite a few years ago. We try to make it a family day followed by a nice family breakfast either back at home or our local diner or a hike in the park. Finding the right kind of church was key for us. After some disasterous churches which were impersonal, drama filled and too bible thumping for me, we found a lovely church and a wonderful female pastor who is a salt of the earth kind of woman. The services are rather short, she gives wonderful sermons and is in touch with many of the modern challenges of life. Everyone greets one another at the start of the service and hugs the pastor as we all walk out. It is incredibly personal and I love it. Even better---the church operates a local food pantry and is very involved with community enrichment programs. They try to involve the youth in things like fixing up bikes for underprivileged children, fund raising for various charities, etc. My daughter, in spite of all her troubles, seems to really listen to the sermons and enjoy church. We are looking at getting her involved more in youth groups. Being around this pastor is a great thing since she is a great mentor and role model. She needs all the positive influence she can get at this point and finding the right church has been a great thing for us.
I would more interested in hearing about your work with troubled youth.
For me personally, I have a hard time understanding why a parent would insist that their teen to have their choice of faith or political beliefs. A teenager is getting close to adulthood and able to conceptualize their own belief system when it comes to religion or politics, which ones represent how they feel about life, death and laws, not their parents. I feel it's more productive for my teens to get active in their own beliefs and leave that open for them to do so. I wouldn't expect my teen to share my political beliefs either, nor would I expect them to vote as I do or encourage them to do so.
I guess I feel that doing these things themselves as older teens helps them understand life independent of me, my values. It is my job to introduce them to life, show them how to be safe, and take care of themselves but not how much or little they want to participate in religion or politics. I leave the personal decisions to them personally.
With Shena, after the last two threads, in my opinion she just wanted her family to represent at church. Big difference to me. A lot of woman I've known just like to get their families dressed up and take them to a social event in the name of God. Their friends are there. They like the family with them. Not the same at all. If your teen wants to participate in your religion they will say so, they will go without having their things taken away to do so. The odd thing was the length she was going to get her there. Shena's daughter is on the honor role, a cheerleader and dedicated to those things. Her issues were cussing sometimes, the mall and not wanting to go to church.
It's not the same as your child who wants to go, and is seeking enrichment from a church experience.
We have always as a family participated in charities. There are tons that are not affiliated with religion or politics. We are eco and energy friendly as well. There are a lot of ways to show teens community enrichment, the value of helping others and taking care of this earth we live on, not just here in our town but across the country as well as awareness of world issues one can support. I don't personally tie values to faith. I don't understand those who do.
I've known some crappy people who were religious and some wonderful people who were not. All I remember from my teen youth retreats were 1/2 the kids sneaking off to get high during them. I don't remember the power to enrich the teens that weren't into enrichment. They were only there because their parents wanted them to be. The ones their who wanted enrichment got it, but that's reality. IMO
One other thing... diet is really important. Fruits and veggies. Plenty of rest, water and limit sugar as much as possible. That can have a huge impact on one's behavior as well....
I agree, keeping a good diet is important. Nutrient deficiencies can lead to depression and lack of energy. Eating right is right up the parents alley. Instead of assuming one of my teens was lazy I took her to the doctor for a check up and addressed the lack of energy. After her blood work came back we had our answer. She was low on vitamin D. Getting that in check alone made a huge difference. I never had to address her negatively about it, that wasn't my first thought. Sometimes their are legitimate reasons for a teens behavior. This would be my first check as a parent. A lot of teen girls are also lacking in iron. This can make them very irritable, and angry. Parents should get them checked out before you assume they have a bad personality IMO.
I would try this. Take all your monthly bills and take out your check book and have her write out the checks. It doesn't matter if the checks are really used to pay the bills it's just an eye opener for her. Then ask her if she would appreciate her daughter acting as she does knowing what's involved to keep a household running.
At the very least she can see how her choice of man later in life can have a material effect on what type of lifestyle she can live. I think in the teen years teenagers should start to get to know what real life is like.
Disclaimer: I have no kids but helped raise a few.. That's probably why I never had any..
Parents often assume that they are under more "stress" because they have so much responsibility compared to a teenager. What they don't realize is that stress is not brought on by responsibility in and of itself. The reason I say teenagers generally have to deal with more stress is specifically because they lack the understanding, maturity, knowledge, and wisdom to cope WITH their stress. Therefore, much of it is never resolved. It only builds up, especially considering how little authority they have to remove the stressors outright. If I'm stressed out about something as an adult, I typically have many options in handling it. If a teenager is stressed out about something, they typically have very few.
Underestimating the intensity (and inevitability) of your kid's frustration is a sure way to push them further away from you.
We have always as a family participated in charities. There are tons that are not affiliated with religion or politics. We are eco and energy friendly as well. There are a lot of ways to show teens community enrichment, the value of helping others and taking care of this earth we live on, not just here in our town but across the country as well as awareness of world issues one can support. I don't personally tie values to faith. I don't understand those who do.
I think it is great getting a family involved in charaties as well. Anything that allows a child/teen to look beyond their own self interests is a great thing and can be enriching. If you are doing this as a family with family time is perfect. Building empathy in a young person is wonderful, whether it is attending church, working at an animal shelter, doing environmental things, etc. It is all good.
Getting back to church---again I'm on the fence with this one and for 20 years of our marriage before kids, didn't attend. What prompted us to get involved was the preschool my son attended where they gave the kids a religious education. At age 5 or so, he actually told me that he loved Jesus and went through a Jesus phase where he was really interested. In fact I even dragged myself to a church store one day and sorted through all the churchie stuff (and unfortunatly got on their mailing list) to buy him a Jesus tapestry for his room which he still has up to watch over him. His interest has waned a bit since sitting through any service for a 9 year old active boy can be boring. My daughter on the other hand----I think it gives her solace.
As I mentioned before, finding the right one was key. We started attending one church that was drama filled and people were how you described. I didn't get that sense of faith, love and all that good stuff you should be doing. No one knew our names, people were cliquey and artificial. It took a few years to finally find the one we attend. The best way I can describe it is----folksy with great music, singing, and warmth. I can envision the pastor in her earthmother sandels at home, lol. She is down to earth and very grounded and the congregation is so warm. To me, I think that we found the perfect place for us that embodies faith and a strong spirituality. And this is coming from me who is sort of on the fence about religion. Perhaps my daugher will grow out of it and start rebelling at some point. The point is that we try to do this as a family and then do something afterwards. It makes for a nice family centered Sunday where you can just slow down and smell the roses. For others, I'm sure that a walk in the park can do the same thing.
On your comment about faith though...... I think that faith can be a powerful factor in people's lives. I hope that my daughter develops this and it can help guide her through her life and give her comfort. In fact I think that my faith is growing a bit as I get older.
For me personally, I have a hard time understanding why a parent would insist that their teen to have their choice of faith or political beliefs. A teenager is getting close to adulthood and able to conceptualize their own belief system when it comes to religion or politics, which ones represent how they feel about life, death and laws, not their parents. I feel it's more productive for my teens to get active in their own beliefs and leave that open for them to do so. I wouldn't expect my teen to share my political beliefs either, nor would I expect them to vote as I do or encourage them to do so.
I guess I feel that doing these things themselves as older teens helps them understand life independent of me, my values. It is my job to introduce them to life, show them how to be safe, and take care of themselves but not how much or little they want to participate in religion or politics. I leave the personal decisions to them personally.
With Shena, after the last two threads, in my opinion she just wanted her family to represent at church. Big difference to me. A lot of woman I've known just like to get their families dressed up and take them to a social event in the name of God. Their friends are there. They like the family with them. Not the same at all. If your teen wants to participate in your religion they will say so, they will go without having their things taken away to do so. The odd thing was the length she was going to get her there. Shena's daughter is on the honor role, a cheerleader and dedicated to those things. Her issues were cussing sometimes, the mall and not wanting to go to church.
It's not the same as your child who wants to go, and is seeking enrichment from a church experience.
We have always as a family participated in charities. There are tons that are not affiliated with religion or politics. We are eco and energy friendly as well. There are a lot of ways to show teens community enrichment, the value of helping others and taking care of this earth we live on, not just here in our town but across the country as well as awareness of world issues one can support. I don't personally tie values to faith. I don't understand those who do.
I've known some crappy people who were religious and some wonderful people who were not. All I remember from my teen youth retreats were 1/2 the kids sneaking off to get high during them. I don't remember the power to enrich the teens that weren't into enrichment. They were only there because their parents wanted them to be. The ones their who wanted enrichment got it, but that's reality. IMO
THE CRAPPY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE not really faith filled and have no relationship with GOD(i know a pastor of a church that fits this description)--children (yes teens are still children) follow examples so having faith filled people in their lives is important(and not just showing up in church)---kids of all ages are generally pretty good in determining phoniness in adults
so whatever you present to your kidss the key here is being honest and sincere and fully believing what you are doing is meant to help them grow---remember--looking for sincerity in the adults around them is a full time unspoken adolescent trait(much to my amazement sincerity when working with teen gang members was a plus in my work experience)
THE CRAPPY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE not really faith filled and have no relationship with GOD(i know a pastor of a church that fits this description)--children (yes teens are still children) follow examples so having faith filled people in their lives is important(and not just showing up in church)---kids of all ages are generally pretty good in determining phoniness in adults
so whatever you present to your kidss the key here is being honest and sincere and fully believing what you are doing is meant to help them grow---remember--looking for sincerity in the adults around them is a full time unspoken adolescent trait(much to my amazement sincerity when working with teen gang members was a plus in my work experience)
I agree. Faith is a hard one because as people we have faith in more than religious figures. Faith is simply confidence or trust in a person or thing. Having faith in god is closely tied to having experience with faith paying off through other relationships you've had with people. A child's faith can be shaken or stimulated by a person they have faith, or trust in, in their own household as well.
A lot of trouble in youth stems from a lack of faith in people and society, not just god. It is nice you are sincere and I'm sure their faith in you makes a difference in how they recover. I commend that whole heartily.
If only there was a pill for faith. lol
I have noticed that kids involved in community activities with a good outcome instills faith in their community, which filters down to society as a whole. That is why I think programs like this, not linked to god, are beneficial. On the flip side I am always concerned when I hear people talk as if faith and aid is only given when attached to a religion. I.E. I go to church to help others. You can help others with or without god or church. As a matter of fact I think it's important that religion doesn't have a monopoly on this. I feel the same way about political affiliation. Making decisions based on a party of people and not the issues. That can become disappointing. That alone can make you feel elitist. This is why choice is a must to me when it comes to religion. What you put your faith in can't be manipulated by others. That will have the opposite outcome and can be a faith shaker, IMO.
Building trust with others is important but trusting yourself and having faith in ones own decisions is a lifesaver in my view. You can't do this unless you have room to do it in your own life. Have space in your life that isn't being manipulated by someone else. If a parent is making all your personal decisions it's difficult to build faith in your own life, faith in your own decisions. IMO of course.
THE CRAPPY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE not really faith filled and have no relationship with GOD(i know a pastor of a church that fits this description)--children (yes teens are still children) follow examples so having faith filled people in their lives is important(and not just showing up in church)---kids of all ages are generally pretty good in determining phoniness in adults
so whatever you present to your kidss the key here is being honest and sincere and fully believing what you are doing is meant to help them grow---remember--looking for sincerity in the adults around them is a full time unspoken adolescent trait(much to my amazement sincerity when working with teen gang members was a plus in my work experience)
The crappy religious people??? Generalize much? Certainly there are people in church who are less than 'faith filled'. Perhaps they are striving to be better.
And, yes, there are some so-called 'phonies' in church as in all walks of life.
But I think your generalization is way out of line. Churches also have plenty of good, caring, thoughtful; faithful members.
If the OP does not introduce her children to God - they will never know him OR be able to make that choice in adulthood. "God" or "Church" would simply be foreign concepts. So, going to church as a family I cannot find fault with.
Anyhoo, here's how I compromise - sometimes in lieu of church, I just allow my son to attend youth-group that evening. He has to get up early EVERY saturday for 7:00 am practice and I do feel he needs some rest. But at youth group; he is still surrounded by God; by thoughtful contemplation about big issues . . . and he enjoys it and the other children there. And his youth pastor is a fabulous, FAITHFILLED, role model.
I think it is great getting a family involved in charaties as well. Anything that allows a child/teen to look beyond their own self interests is a great thing and can be enriching. If you are doing this as a family with family time is perfect. Building empathy in a young person is wonderful, whether it is attending church, working at an animal shelter, doing environmental things, etc. It is all good.
Getting back to church---again I'm on the fence with this one and for 20 years of our marriage before kids, didn't attend. What prompted us to get involved was the preschool my son attended where they gave the kids a religious education. At age 5 or so, he actually told me that he loved Jesus and went through a Jesus phase where he was really interested. In fact I even dragged myself to a church store one day and sorted through all the churchie stuff (and unfortunatly got on their mailing list) to buy him a Jesus tapestry for his room which he still has up to watch over him. His interest has waned a bit since sitting through any service for a 9 year old active boy can be boring. My daughter on the other hand----I think it gives her solace.
As I mentioned before, finding the right one was key. We started attending one church that was drama filled and people were how you described. I didn't get that sense of faith, love and all that good stuff you should be doing. No one knew our names, people were cliquey and artificial. It took a few years to finally find the one we attend. The best way I can describe it is----folksy with great music, singing, and warmth. I can envision the pastor in her earthmother sandels at home, lol. She is down to earth and very grounded and the congregation is so warm. To me, I think that we found the perfect place for us that embodies faith and a strong spirituality. And this is coming from me who is sort of on the fence about religion. Perhaps my daugher will grow out of it and start rebelling at some point. The point is that we try to do this as a family and then do something afterwards. It makes for a nice family centered Sunday where you can just slow down and smell the roses. For others, I'm sure that a walk in the park can do the same thing.
On your comment about faith though...... I think that faith can be a powerful factor in people's lives. I hope that my daughter develops this and it can help guide her through her life and give her comfort. In fact I think that my faith is growing a bit as I get older.
I'm glad to see things working out for you. You seem to have found a place to hang your religious hat.
If your kids are willingly participating in the religion of their choice I don't see any issue with it. I think it's a good thing. If they happen to be happy with the same church and religious people you are and you all share that area of your lives then that works out well for you. Sometimes this happens, and it's nice.
But, making that happen because you are excited about this wonderful church and how the lady with the sandals invokes special feelings in you is different. Your kids are small now, but when they get older and closer to becoming adults that church might not do the same things for them as it does for you. Some would make them stay on until they are 18 or after using guilt, bribes, etc, they don't view it as a choice for a teenager.
All I am saying is that if at that time, if they were my teens, I would allow them to decide on their own. Even if they were deciding to just take the Sunday morning to sleep. I don't view it as rebelling if my teen has other religious ideas. We still do things as a family, regardless of church. Case in point, I go to church but I also go out to dinner with my family. I don't attach the two, I think that would feel awkward, like bribing.
I touched on my idea of faiths importance in my reply to auntieannie. I think having faith in ones self to make decisions regarding most everything including religion is a good thing. I don't think religion has a monopoly on faith. Just one of the many things people can have faith in. So, it's all good if it comes from within the individual. I do think faith should be addressed outside the realm of god though, I don't think it only applies to religious beliefs.
Last edited by PoppySead; 03-08-2012 at 09:45 AM..
Reason: Uggg, I always add......:)
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