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Old 03-13-2012, 11:52 AM
 
1,469 posts, read 873,478 times
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I think school policy should be revised. A kid should NOT be suspended for defending themselves, ever. Usually, by the time it even gets to that point, the kid has already told teachers, the parent has already talked to the principal, the bully has picked on other kids, and the administrators are already aware of the troublemaker. In a well known, well documented situation, especially when the bully has been in trouble before, the child fighting back should not be suspended. If they really feel they need to send a no tolerance message, the bully should get more time, and the child fighting bacck should be at least allowed to make up their missed work.

Teaching kids to stand up for themselves has to start young. In daycare, I had to start telling my dd to hit back. There was one kid who would always scratch her. She came home day after day with claw marks on her face. The teacher said the kid was just overly excited, that he liked my dd and just didn't know how to be gentle. But I got sick of seeing her all scratched up all the time, and she would go the other way when she saw this kid coming. I stopped cutting her fingernails, and let them get long, and told her to go for it. She didn't want to, but eventually she got tired of the kid too, and needless to say that ended it. I think that taught her that staying quiet, avoiding the person, even telling the teacher does not solve the problem, but defending yourself does. I know as she gets older, it won't be as easy, but a kid who can and will stand up for herself stands a better chance of never getting bullied in the first place.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
14,367 posts, read 11,896,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
I think school policy should be revised. A kid should NOT be suspended for defending themselves, ever. Usually, by the time it even gets to that point, the kid has already told teachers, the parent has already talked to the principal, the bully has picked on other kids, and the administrators are already aware of the troublemaker. In a well known, well documented situation, especially when the bully has been in trouble before, the child fighting back should not be suspended. If they really feel they need to send a no tolerance message, the bully should get more time, and the child fighting bacck should be at least allowed to make up their missed work.

Teaching kids to stand up for themselves has to start young. In daycare, I had to start telling my dd to hit back. There was one kid who would always scratch her. She came home day after day with claw marks on her face. The teacher said the kid was just overly excited, that he liked my dd and just didn't know how to be gentle. But I got sick of seeing her all scratched up all the time, and she would go the other way when she saw this kid coming. I stopped cutting her fingernails, and let them get long, and told her to go for it. She didn't want to, but eventually she got tired of the kid too, and needless to say that ended it. I think that taught her that staying quiet, avoiding the person, even telling the teacher does not solve the problem, but defending yourself does. I know as she gets older, it won't be as easy, but a kid who can and will stand up for herself stands a better chance of never getting bullied in the first place.
I remember when I was in pre-school there was a kid who for some reason picked on me every day. My dad told me, if he picks on you, get him back. Well the next time I went to school that kid started picking on me so I went to him and punched him right in the face Needless to say my dad got in some trouble from the teacher for his advice, but that kid never would have stopped picking on me if I didn't do something.

I had been taught from a young age to defend myself, and it doesn't always have to be physical. You can defend yourself with words, but you should never allow yourself to be picked on in any case. I was taught to always have respect for myself and not let other people walk over me.

I have seen many "geeks" in high school, some get picked on and other don't. One kid I remember, was probably the biggest uber-geek you'd ever see, he was a funny guy and not one person would ever give him crap, you know why? If someone mocked him, he'd pick out something on you that you're definitely embarressed about that hits below the belt and come back with it. He was never messed with and was probably one of the biggest geeks in the school.

I feel parents are becoming to passive, and also are not instilling self confidence in their children. A lot of these parents are people that had been bullied or were socially awkward themselves. Self confidence is really where it starts.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Mid-Town
7,499 posts, read 9,775,187 times
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On a kick the crap outta someone note, I had a phys ed teacher in 9th grade that used to let us do a 2 minute round at the end of class on Friday against peers we had trouble with. (If both parties agreed)
Worked really good until one kid had his teeth knocked out and the teacher had some 'splainin to do...
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: here
16,822 posts, read 13,577,103 times
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Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
What is it with schools these days and now allowing kids to stick up for themselves? It is like these schools are ASKING for these poor kids to get bullied. If these overly sensitive parents and teachers would just allow the kids getting bullied to defend themselves and not get suspended for trying to help themselves it would probably prevent a lot of bullying. I find it pathetic when a kid gets tormented for god knows how long and he has his parents telling him to not do anything because a teacher might suspend him? I'm sorry but something needs to be changed here, and it needs to be looked into a lot better than what it is. I feel everyone has become so weak they can't even defend themselves anymore.
I don't know about "these days." When has violence ever been allowed at school? And who are these parents telling their kids "not to do anything?" IMO bullying is more about words than acts of violence. Are we supposed to be teaching our kids to start a physical altercation with someone who calls them a name? There are several things parents could be, and probably are telling their kids to do. I doubt a lot of parents actually say "don't do anything. You might get get suspended."

Last edited by Kibbiekat; 03-13-2012 at 01:13 PM.. Reason: typo, always a typo
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
11,947 posts, read 5,571,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
I don't know about "these days." When has violence ever been allowed at school? And who are these parents telling their kids "not to do anything?" IMO bullying is more about words than acts of violence. Are we supposed to be teaching out kids to start a physical altercation with someone who calls them a name? There are several things parents could be, and probably are telling their kids to do. I doubt a lot of parents actually say "don't do anything. You might get get suspended."
Exactly. And to add bullying is not about 2 children of equal confidence and social standing having a spat. Bullying is about selecting a target that is passive and won't, or doesn't have the ability stand up for themselves.

I hate this simplistic notion that "if only kids stood up for themselves" bullying would be obselete. Oh, if only it were that simple.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:22 PM
 
1,072 posts, read 1,323,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Exactly. And to add bullying is not about 2 children of equal confidence and social standing having a spat. Bullying is about selecting a target that is passive and won't, or doesn't have the ability stand up for themselves.

I hate this simplistic notion that "if only kids stood up for themselves" bullying would be obselete. Oh, if only it were that simple.

Bullying isn't always a more aggressive kid picking on a passive. A lot of bullying is for social status, so if that means bringing another kid who is on your level of confindence down a notch or two the bully only feels more powerful. Kids won't win by standing up for themselves alone....BUT if they stand up as a group and have parents/adults backing them, most bullys along with their bully parents can be put in place. I have all boys and one granddaughter and I do not tolerate bullying at all. I teach the kids to defend themselves and their friends as well as teaching my boys to defend girls who are in need of it. I feel girls can stand upto boys just as good as boys can. Boys don't EVER hit a girl but if a girl hits them, hold them down until help can come or walk away. It's not hard to help a kid build self confidence but it is hard to let them choose when to use it.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:26 PM
 
1,469 posts, read 873,478 times
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Actually, I think defending yourself against physical bullying is easy. They hit, you hit back. But how does a child defend themselves against verbal taunting or cyberbullying?

It was easier when I was young. If you didn't like someone, they pissed you off for whatever reason, you fought about it and it was over. If someone wrote on a bathroom wall about you, that was about as bad as it got. With the internet and other social media, it has become far more brutal and hurtful. People videotaping themselves beating someone up, putting it on YouTube, spreading devastating rumors on Facebook...how do kids defend themselves from that?

The only hope that a kid in this day and age might have is to be as strong willed and confident as possible. That way, maybe the bully might think twice about picking with them in the first place, and if they do, the kid would be able to deal with it. But it seems that bullies deliberately go after kids who are insecure and not strong willed.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,339 posts, read 2,757,595 times
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I remember, at one school I went to when I was young, it was just my luck that everytime I stood up to a bully and "fought back" or so to speak, I got in trouble and was accused of being the one causing trouble, and the bully got away scot-free each time (the supervisors were quite laissez-faire there and really didn't get involved until any "fight" escalated to the point it was highly visible to their eyes, and even so they just caught whoever looked like they "were in the act" at that moment in time -- any kind of just plain taunting or teasing or even mild pushing and shoving was typically ignored).

It must have been just that school though, since I didn't have issues in other places.
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:51 AM
 
2,728 posts, read 2,541,459 times
Reputation: 1899
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
What is it with schools these days and now allowing kids to stick up for themselves? It is like these schools are ASKING for these poor kids to get bullied. If these overly sensitive parents and teachers would just allow the kids getting bullied to defend themselves and not get suspended for trying to help themselves it would probably prevent a lot of bullying. I find it pathetic when a kid gets tormented for god knows how long and he has his parents telling him to not do anything because a teacher might suspend him? I'm sorry but something needs to be changed here, and it needs to be looked into a lot better than what it is. I feel everyone has become so weak they can't even defend themselves anymore.
I once read in a book about bullying that the best defense against bullying is being raised in a family with a backbone. The author warned that if the parents were not raised in a family with a backbone, it would be very difficult to teach it to their children.

As a person who was raised in a family with no backbone, I agree. Now that I know what it takes (3 years of researching, practicing, reflecting, learning, gaining and losing relationships (family even)), I understand why it is so difficult for others to make that step and why some schools are not effective.
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Old 03-14-2012, 06:08 AM
 
1,330 posts, read 690,040 times
Reputation: 2464
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
Actually, I think defending yourself against physical bullying is easy. They hit, you hit back. But how does a child defend themselves against verbal taunting or cyberbullying?

It was easier when I was young. If you didn't like someone, they pissed you off for whatever reason, you fought about it and it was over. If someone wrote on a bathroom wall about you, that was about as bad as it got. With the internet and other social media, it has become far more brutal and hurtful. People videotaping themselves beating someone up, putting it on YouTube, spreading devastating rumors on Facebook...how do kids defend themselves from that?

The only hope that a kid in this day and age might have is to be as strong willed and confident as possible. That way, maybe the bully might think twice about picking with them in the first place, and if they do, the kid would be able to deal with it. But it seems that bullies deliberately go after kids who are insecure and not strong willed.
I agree with you Anna about the cyberbullying. While physical bullying is always scary, the cyber stuff is can be much more vicious and reaches out to a broader audience. In our Middle School, the principal warned us against one particular social networking site. They had many problems with it during the previous years and it got really nasty.

Heck, even in some well publicized cases, you had parents joining in the bullying. When it comes to the internet, some folks have no boundaries. Scary.
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