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I don't necessarily think spanking breaks the spirit, well, it depends on how bad and violent the spanking is.
I just think it's a very counterproductive way to discipline. I think it distructs a child from thinking about what he did wrong and his thinking is concentrated on resentment/fear/anger as a result of being spanked.
Example: little Billy pulls the cat's tail.
You: Billy, stop it.
Billy doesn't stop.
You: Billy stop it or you are going to get a spanking.
Billy doesn't stop.
You go over to him and spank him.
Do you think Billy thinks: you know I shouldn't be pulling the cat's tail because it hurts the cat, it makes the cat uncomfortable. Next time I will be more gentle with the cat.
I think that most likely Billy is thinking: bad mommy, I didn't do anything wrong and she spanked me. Why did she spank me?! Next time, I will make sure she doesn't see me pulling the cat's tail.
I just think it's nothing but a distruction. I want my son to do right not because he is afraid he is going to get spanked, but because he knows that doing the right thing will benefit him and others.
When I hear: well I spanked my children but they love me and respect me anyway, I can't help but wonder. Well, of course they love you, you are the parent, you raised them, of course they love you. The question is not whether or not they love you. The question is whether or not they respect you out of fear or out of love.
I will never have to guess about that since I don't spank and not planning to.
Example: little Billy pulls the cat's tail.
You: Billy, stop it.
Billy doesn't stop.
You: Billy stop it or you are going to get a spanking.
Billy doesn't stop.
You go over to him and spank him.
Do you think Billy thinks: you know I shouldn't be pulling the cat's tail because it hurts the cat, it makes the cat uncomfortable. Next time I will be more gentle with the cat.
I think that most likely Billy is thinking: bad mommy, I didn't do anything wrong and she spanked me. Why did she spank me?! Next time, I will make sure she doesn't see me pulling the cat's tail.
Both are possibilities.
When I was a kid I was pretty agreeable, as long as I heard my parents. (poor attention span)
For me, if I was in that situation and noticed the request to stop pulling the tail, if was doing it innocently, I would have stopped. If I didn't hear then obviously I might not. If I was really doing it to make the cat angry I might not either. Either way, I would learn it was wrong to pull the cat's tail by being spanked.
If I didn't hear the request to stop I'd ask why I was spanked and my parents would explain why, then I'd learn.
If I heard it and ignore because I wanted to be a brat, I would at least learn that the cat is important to my parents, that they have reason to believe it could hurt the cat and want to protect it and that I should respect their wishes, regardless of my feelings towards the cat.
I suppose spanking would be a big problem if your child is already afraid of you, but if you've reached that point, I suspect most forms of discipline feel to the kid the only reason they need to listen is "you have the power," instead of the feeling that your parents want to teach you how to get along well with other people.
I do not have kids. I was spanked as a child (with a hand, never a belt). I do not support spanking children and will not if I have children.
Firstly, it sends a conflicting message. Parents teach their children that violence is wrong, that they shouldn't hit their siblings, and should talk out their problems; yet they are the ones who will start hitting a child when it becomes too difficult to control them by non-physical means. Kids notice hypocrisy just as much as adults do.
Secondly, I've never really understood why it is seen as socially acceptable to hit a child on the butt, sometimes leaving marks, when if you were to move that hand down a few inches onto the legs, or up to the back and leave marks, it would be considered child abuse and you would be able to be charged for it. A light swat is one thing, but a hard smacking, bent over, using other materials (belt, switch, etc.) is abuse in my mind.
I just think that spanking is counter-productive, stupid, and a cop out. With that said, I don't think being spanked as a child really affected me personally for the positive or negative. I wasn't bad enough as a child to regularly be spanked and when I was, I don't feel it kept me more in line than any other non-spanking punishments my parents doled out (i.e. taking away my video games, sending me to my room, grounding, etc.). I did however notice the inconsistency in it at a very young age.
When I was a kid I was pretty agreeable, as long as I heard my parents. (poor attention span)
For me, if I was in that situation and noticed the request to stop pulling the tail, if was doing it innocently, I would have stopped. If I didn't hear then obviously I might not. If I was really doing it to make the cat angry I might not either. Either way, I would learn it was wrong to pull the cat's tail by being spanked.
If I didn't hear the request to stop I'd ask why I was spanked and my parents would explain why, then I'd learn.
If I heard it and ignore because I wanted to be a brat, I would at least learn that the cat is important to my parents, that they have reason to believe it could hurt the cat and want to protect it and that I should respect their wishes, regardless of my feelings towards the cat.
I suppose spanking would be a big problem if your child is already afraid of you, but if you've reached that point, I suspect most forms of discipline feel to the kid the only reason they need to listen is "you have the power," instead of the feeling that your parents want to teach you how to get along well with other people.
Just to clarify, my Billy/cat example was hypothetical. I certainly hope that no mother within the realm of this forum will have a nerve to spank a child just for pulling cat's tail.
My point is: the lesson that the cat is important to parents can be very easily taught without the spanking.
You said that you were generally agreeable as a child, so my assumption is that you weren't spanked very often, or your spanking was very light. Not that it makes it right, but I can easily see how it wouldn't make a big deal to you. Plus some children are just generally more flexible and little spanking doesn't faze them. Some children however are very very sensitive and take to heart even a very light spanking so tuning in to a child is very important in that case.
Also, what I noticed in this particular POLL is that most parents who spank were spanked as children. How easy it is to inherit this uninspiring way to parent.
Also, what I noticed in this particular POLL is that most parents who spank were spanked as children. How easy it is to inherit this uninspiring way to parent.
On the flip side however, it appears that thus far, slightly over 1/3 of those who were spanked as children made a conscious decision not to spank their own children, all the while almost no one who wasn't spanked as a child chooses to spank theirs. That means that if that trend were to continue, with roughly 1/3 of people who are spanked deciding not to do so themselves, that it will eventually die out as a practice in subsequent generations.
On the flip side however, it appears that thus far, slightly over 1/3 of those who were spanked as children made a conscious decision not to spank their own children, all the while almost no one who wasn't spanked as a child chooses to spank theirs. That means that if that trend were to continue, with roughly 1/3 of people who are spanked deciding not to do so themselves, that it will eventually die out as a practice in subsequent generations.
My point is: the lesson that the cat is important to parents can be very easily taught without the spanking.
You said that you were generally agreeable as a child, so my assumption is that you weren't spanked very often, or your spanking was very light. Not that it makes it right, but I can easily see how it wouldn't make a big deal to you. Plus some children are just generally more flexible and little spanking doesn't faze them.
Some children however are very very sensitive and take to heart even a very light spanking so tuning in to a child is very important in that case.
Sure, and if my parents expected that I'd be around cats they probably would have explained how to (or not to) treat a cat beforehand.
Not sure what's considered "very light" spanking, but as I said in the earlier post I never felt it more than a half-hour later; it only hurt about 5 minutes and then followed a period of general discomfort.
Spanking was often a last resort approach to discipline. Most of the time I either knew the rules or it would have been easy to figure out had I been paying attention. Many times they would talk to me and explain things before I got into trouble, and occaisionally afterwards. Sometimes discipline as a young child involved losing the privledge of dessert or a favorite toy for a while, instead of spanking.
I'm thinking this part is more likely related to other aspects of being a parent, rather than the genetic make up and inborn personality of each individual child. That being said, I have no clear idea of what other factors might cause a kid to be very sensitive to this form of discipline, but I believe in most cases it'd be "environmental" as in the social environment that exists (or rather doesn't exist) in the home.
Sure, and if my parents expected that I'd be around cats they probably would have explained how to (or not to) treat a cat beforehand.
Not sure what's considered "very light" spanking, but as I said in the earlier post I never felt it more than a half-hour later; it only hurt about 5 minutes and then followed a period of general discomfort.
Spanking was often a last resort approach to discipline. Most of the time I either knew the rules or it would have been easy to figure out had I been paying attention. Many times they would talk to me and explain things before I got into trouble, and occaisionally afterwards. Sometimes discipline as a young child involved losing the privledge of dessert or a favorite toy for a while, instead of spanking.
I'm thinking this part is more likely related to other aspects of being a parent, rather than the genetic make up and inborn personality of each individual child. That being said, I have no clear idea of what other factors might cause a kid to be very sensitive to this form of discipline, but I believe in most cases it'd be "environmental" as in the social environment that exists (or rather doesn't exist) in the home.
By light spanking I mean "doesn't leave a pink/red mark".
Some kids are just born very sensitive, not agreeable and high-need. Those children especially should not be spanked.
I don't necessarily think spanking breaks the spirit, well, it depends on how bad and violent the spanking is.
I just think it's a very counterproductive way to discipline. I think it distructs a child from thinking about what he did wrong and his thinking is concentrated on resentment/fear/anger as a result of being spanked.
Example: little Billy pulls the cat's tail.
You: Billy, stop it.
Billy doesn't stop.
You: Billy stop it or you are going to get a spanking.
Billy doesn't stop.
You go over to him and spank him.
Do you think Billy thinks: you know I shouldn't be pulling the cat's tail because it hurts the cat, it makes the cat uncomfortable. Next time I will be more gentle with the cat.
I think that most likely Billy is thinking: bad mommy, I didn't do anything wrong and she spanked me. Why did she spank me?! Next time, I will make sure she doesn't see me pulling the cat's tail.
I just think it's nothing but a distruction. I want my son to do right not because he is afraid he is going to get spanked, but because he knows that doing the right thing will benefit him and others.
When I hear: well I spanked my children but they love me and respect me anyway, I can't help but wonder. Well, of course they love you, you are the parent, you raised them, of course they love you. The question is not whether or not they love you. The question is whether or not they respect you out of fear or out of love.
I will never have to guess about that since I don't spank and not planning to.
Once again, my children do not fear me.
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