Washington State pertussis epidemic (have to tell, babies, wife, child)

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

I can see how the kids who are here illegally might not get vaccinated, while the ones who have one or more illegal parents but were born here do. That could mean in a given family, some children get medical care and some do not.

But the ones who live in the States do get the benefit of herd immunity, just like those whose parents voluntarily do not vaccinate. They are more likely to be victims of an imported measles outbreak than a cause.

I agree actually.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Malloric

From my understanding, Pertussis is most lethal under two months, which is before they give the vaccine. There's no point in giving the vaccine to them before two months, and even at two months the effectiveness is not very high, which is why you have it given five times (2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 15-18 months, 4-6 years). The first two especially are "something is better than nothing" vaccines, and are not very effective. Since there's no real harm (4 mg of aluminum, 96% of which does not deposit in the body), why not?

For all that, it's important to note that the vaccine is only 85% effective once fully immunized. For the first six months, it's much less than that. That's the rational behind "cocoon" vaccination where everyone with frequent contact is vaccinated.

Yes. The younger the child, the more serious pertussis is. Actually, that is generally true (note word in bold) about everything.

The first dose of pertussis vaccine (actually diphtheria, tetanus and acellular pertussis or DTaP) is usually given at two months. It "primes' the immune system. It produces little immunity. The second dose at 4 months starts the immune response, and the third dose at 6 mos gives the fullest immunity. The two boosters boost immunity as it wears off.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Katiana

This has already been responded to, but I want to add.

"Most" will recover? What is an accetable death rate, in your opinion, for a vaccine preventable disease?

Please post a link from a reputable source (e.g. NOT "Natural News", whaleto, etc) that says that pertussis can be a mild illness for many. The Chinese character for pertussis means "100 day cough". That's a little over three months. In addition, the treatment does not always stop the cough; it just makes the person non-contagious.

If you're a nurse, you should be able to do your own research - but here's a link:

CDC - Pertussis: Clinical Features

Believe it or not - there are people who have pertussis who don't even know they do, only about 10% of the cases are actually diagnosed. Even infants can have a mild case that goes undiagnosed.

Like I said, I think DTP is a reasonable vaccine to get but no need to run around like Chicken Little and think people are dying from this 2012 epidemic in Washington state, no one has died.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

I realize that about Mexico. They haven't had many measles cases there and when they do it's usually a traveler.
I'm not so sure about the illegals over here though. In AZ they have been afraid to get their kids shots in fear of being deported. I think we should give allowance for vaccines. Just putting that out there.

But Arizona isn't the state with the pertussi epidemic.

I'm not convinced that illegals have much to do with the pertussis outbreak in Washington state. Yes it's true illegals being smuggled into the country don't have any health screening or required vaccines but I would suspect that in the case of Washington state, it's more likely the ineffectiveness of the vaccine so that teens and adults are actually getting pertussis infections and spreading them. The vaccine does not provide lasting immunity, plus health care professionals have been known to give the adult vaccine to infants, the adult vaccine provides a much smaller dose and is meant to be a booster.

Unvaccinated illegals may more likely have full blown immunity from natural infections they had as children and are less likely to spread the disease.

[Zimbochick]

Originally Posted by malamute

If you're a nurse, you should be able to do your own research - but here's a link:

CDC - Pertussis: Clinical Features

Believe it or not - there are people who have pertussis who don't even know they do, only about 10% of the cases are actually diagnosed. Even infants can have a mild case that goes undiagnosed.

Like I said, I think DTP is a reasonable vaccine to get but no need to run around like Chicken Little and think people are dying from this 2012 epidemic in Washington state, no one has died.

I have no idea why you are attempting to minimize the severity of Pertussis. It is a nasty illness, completely preventable, and can have catastrophic consequences, especially for the very young.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Zimbochick

I have no idea why you are attempting to minimize the severity of Pertussis. It is a nasty illness, completely preventable, and can have catastrophic consequences, especially for the very young.

It's not really completely preventable. The immunity from the vaccine wears off, and also infants under 2 months of age don't yet have developed immune systems so are susceptible.

I'm not sure if they've determined the real cause of this epidemic - from what I have read it's probably about worn off immunity and errors in giving vaccines by health care professionals.

I'm just saying there is no reason to panic, the sky isn't falling.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by malamute

But Arizona isn't the state with the pertussi epidemic.

Well, we have, we had one in 2005. I was referring to the measles outbreak in my response though. I stated I was just putting it out there as a statement that I would like to see a non invasive vaccine program for children of illegals without fear of deportation attached in my state. Arizona has had some issues of mistreatment regarding this issue. But it was just a statement and wasn't in regards to anything specific which is why I noted it as such.

I'm not convinced that illegals have much to do with the pertussis outbreak in Washington state. Yes it's true illegals being smuggled into the country don't have any health screening or required vaccines but I would suspect that in the case of Washington state, it's more likely the ineffectiveness of the vaccine so that teens and adults are actually getting pertussis infections and spreading them. The vaccine does not provide lasting immunity, plus health care professionals have been known to give the adult vaccine to infants, the adult vaccine provides a much smaller dose and is meant to be a booster.

Unvaccinated illegals may more likely have full blown immunity from natural infections they had as children and are less likely to spread the disease.

You could be right and I agree the vaccinated older child or adult is most likely the cause of outbreaks, especially given Washington's high influx of foreign visitors. Which is why I posted about our recent measles outbreak because it happened to be very similar.
I don't like when people get side tracked with the few people who refuse to vaccinate their children for the very reason we tend to over look the real causes of transmission. The transmission rate of those vaccinated is higher for whopping cough than those who refuse to vaccinate.
The end goal of this conversation to me is to prevent disease outbreaks, not to blame transmission on a single group. It all needs to be studied and addressed with pro active information, IMO of course. So, essentially I agree with you.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by malamute

If you're a nurse, you should be able to do your own research - but here's a link:

CDC - Pertussis: Clinical Features

Believe it or not - there are people who have pertussis who don't even know they do, only about 10% of the cases are actually diagnosed. Even infants can have a mild case that goes undiagnosed.

Like I said, I think DTP is a reasonable vaccine to get but no need to run around like Chicken Little and think people are dying from this 2012 epidemic in Washington state, no one has died.

I believe people are concerned because the outbreak of whopping cough in California in 2010 they had 10 infant deaths.
CDC - Pertussis: Outbreaks

It isn't a scale of 1 to 10 of seriousness I'd argue but I would argue that these outbreaks show us how hard it is to get a handle on a disease, regardless of vaccination. We always have room to improve, there is no loosing site of that. These outbreaks remind us not to get complacent with our current means. To focus on how we can address the present issues within the vaccinated community as well.

[JustJulia]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

I want to second this. Teams will go to the homes of unvaccinated children and give them their shots. Parental permission is not needed.

I would not ever support that happening in the U.S.

[Zimbochick]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

I would not ever support that happening in the U.S.

It is controversial for sure. Of course in the US we have the luxury of very few real epidemics. In places where Polio is endemic and spreading, such as Pakistan, vaccines are given on the streets to anyone walking by who wants one.