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Old 04-29-2012, 05:51 AM
 
14,426 posts, read 8,491,580 times
Reputation: 6742
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJW50 View Post
Coming from a family of alcoholics, I've never drank in my entrie life. i also refuse to allow it in my house. Some one who bases their attendance at parties on the presence/absence of alcohol needs to evaluate their friendship/relationship with the host(s). Anyone who can't have a good time without alcohol and/or feels the need to sneak alcohol into a dry party should seriously consider professional help.
I come from a family of alcoholics. I'm not an alcoholic and neither are my siblings, though most of us do imbibe now and then. I think my addiction gene was more strongly tied to smoking (which I quit years ago).

You can be a from a family of alcoholics and not be one yourself, even though you choose to drink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Alcoholism does tend to run in families and it has been linked to genes. So while, it is not assured that someone who has alcoholism in their family will become alcoholic, there is a better chance that they will, so staying away from alcohol may be a good choice.

Researchers Identify Alcoholism Gene
I agree with this. I think one should acknowledge the risk so they can properly police themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Yeah, okay. I think it's perfectly fine to think you can willpower your way out of being an alcoholic. Go ahead, try it.

As far a Europeans go, they don't drink wine like water. And I don't care who drinks, and who doesn't. I have no problem serving alcohol at any party.

What I do care about, is when 24 year old people with the life experience of a gnat, proclaim that even though alcholism runs in both sides of their family, that it won't happen to them, because by gee, they're just oh too clever for that.

I guess I missed the announcement that txtqueen has found the cure for alcoholism - which is obviously Just Don't Fall For That Weakminded Bull****. Who knew?
How do you think dry alcoholics stay sober, if not for willpower?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
I hate to break it to you, but yes, statistically speaking many European countries have much higher rates of alcoholism than the US.

WHO | World Health Organization
Do you know what their definition/parameters of the alcoholism were?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Maybe I missed something, but I never read that anyone provides alcohol for adult guests because they are afraid people won't show up otherwise.

No one said that. Oleg just pulled it out of thin air.

 
Old 04-29-2012, 06:21 AM
 
5,852 posts, read 2,791,587 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
I come from a family of alcoholics. I'm not an alcoholic and neither are my siblings, though most of us do imbibe now and then. I think my addiction gene was more strongly tied to smoking (which I quit years ago).
You can be a from a family of alcoholics and not be one yourself, even though you choose to drink.
I agree with this. I think one should acknowledge the risk so they can properly police themselves.
How do you think dry alcoholics stay sober, if not for willpower?
To answer your question - fear. It's not willpower, it's fear. And in order to obtain that healthy fear of drinking, you have to go through hell. Dry alcoholics have led a life that they much rather would have never led, and it's fear of what their lives will revert back to if they drink that stops them picking it up again.

I agree with all your points (up to the last question). You need to properly police yourself. This idea that "it won't happen to me because I'm not weakminded" is delusional, however.

Active alcoholics will wake up every day remorseful and full of willpower, which erodes considerably by the time the shakes start and the full body need for a drink hits them. If you want to pit a drinking alcoholic against alcohol with willpower, it ain't gonna happen. The booze will win. One's body needs a drink. One's body knows it could possibly die if it doesn't have one. It takes extensive medical and behavioral intervention, generally, to break that cycle. A lot of people don't make it at all. They die. They lose everything and everyone in the process.

If people want to take that risk, then that's sincerely up to them. No doubt we'll face this dilemma when our daughter is old enough to drink. I think being ultimately aware of what could transpire is the best defense. To be so cavalier and "it won't happen to me because I'm different" is the worst kind of ignorance, and I'd hate to see someone have to go through all of that anguish because of it. It's truly something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
 
Old 04-29-2012, 07:08 AM
 
14,426 posts, read 8,491,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
To answer your question - fear. It's not willpower, it's fear. And in order to obtain that healthy fear of drinking, you have to go through hell. Dry alcoholics have led a life that they much rather would have never led, and it's fear of what their lives will revert back to if they drink that stops them picking it up again.
Sure it's fear. But it is also willpower. IMO, it's foolish to say willpower doesn't play a part. I quit smoking after having a pack and a half a day habit. Fear over cancer and not seeing my children grow up played a part. So did the willpower to not light up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
I agree with all your points (up to the last question). You need to properly police yourself. This idea that "it won't happen to me because I'm not weakminded" is delusional, however.

Active alcoholics will wake up every day remorseful and full of willpower, which erodes considerably by the time the shakes start and the full body need for a drink hits them. If you want to pit a drinking alcoholic against alcohol with willpower, it ain't gonna happen. The booze will win. One's body needs a drink. One's body knows it could possibly die if it doesn't have one. It takes extensive medical and behavioral intervention, generally, to break that cycle. A lot of people don't make it at all. They die. They lose everything and everyone in the process.
My father died of alcoholism in his 40s. I know exactly how the disease works. I've attended many an AA and al-anon meetings over the years. I understand how difficult it is to quit the drug and stay sober. That does not mean willpower does not play a part.

Any dry alcoholic will tell you that the user has the power to quit. It is within each of us to control ourselves. If that's not willpower, what is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
If people want to take that risk, then that's sincerely up to them. No doubt we'll face this dilemma when our daughter is old enough to drink. I think being ultimately aware of what could transpire is the best defense. To be so cavalier and "it won't happen to me because I'm different" is the worst kind of ignorance, and I'd hate to see someone have to go through all of that anguish because of it. It's truly something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I'm different from my father because I accept my humanity and mortality. He didn't. He thought he was immune from the effects of his bad lifestyle choices.

I guess the above could apply for either of our arguments when you think about it.
 
Old 04-29-2012, 07:19 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
20,871 posts, read 18,387,278 times
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Let's get back to the topic please.
 
Old 04-29-2012, 07:44 AM
 
5,852 posts, read 2,791,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Sure it's fear. But it is also willpower. IMO, it's foolish to say willpower doesn't play a part. I quit smoking after having a pack and a half a day habit. Fear over cancer and not seeing my children grow up played a part. So did the willpower to not light up.



My father died of alcoholism in his 40s. I know exactly how the disease works. I've attended many an AA and al-anon meetings over the years. I understand how difficult it is to quit the drug and stay sober. That does not mean willpower does not play a part.

Any dry alcoholic will tell you that the user has the power to quit. It is within each of us to control ourselves. If that's not willpower, what is?




I'm different from my father because I accept my humanity and mortality. He didn't. He thought he was immune from the effects of his bad lifestyle choices.

I guess the above could apply for either of our arguments when you think about it.
I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm trying to give a first person perspective, which no matter how many alcoholics you (generic you) have had in your life, is not the same as having gone through it one's self. It's all theory up to that point. I respect your opinion, and yours is a very well thought out one, whereas txtqueen's was not.

Sorry Julia, back to our regularly scheduled programming.
 
Old 04-29-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
9,436 posts, read 4,438,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
I know! I misssed that one too. Funny how when the subject of alcohol comes up, people immediately jump to people getting drunk at a kid's party, so addicted to alcohol that they can't go 2.5 hours without it, getting "drunk and stupid," sneaking alcohol in, basing alcohol being served on whether or not to attend, etc. It seems beyond the realm of possibility for some that some adults do drink responsibly and don't drink to become intoxicated, and that alcohol is no more of a necessity than juice or soda. If only necessary things were at a kid's party, then what would be there? Nothing at all.

Alcohol consumption simply isn't that big a deal for us. I drink on occasion, even with my daughter present. She knows all drinks aren't for children, she has never seen me drunk, or even tipsy, and she has never even asked to taste it. She's never seen anyone drink too much, even at family gatherings. On occasion, she even has had her own "kiddie cocktail." If I threw a party at our home and I offered the other adults a beer or wine, more than likely they would sip that one drink then go home. I've never in my entire life seen anyone become incapacitated on one beer or one glass of wine. If I went to someone else's birthday party where adults were drinking, I certainly wouldn't feel the need to swoop my dd away from the party, anymore than I would decide to leave if they didn't have alcohol. Either way, it's really not a big deal to me.

No child should be around drunk or out of control adults, but I honestly don't feel like I need to protect my dd from every single thing, including normal ADULT consumption.
I agree 100%.

My goodness, I don't need the fun police everywhere I go.

If responsible adults have a glass of wine (or two) or a beer (or two) at a kids' party (isn't that what we were talking about) . . . who cares?

Lighten up, people.
 
Old 04-29-2012, 01:09 PM
 
8,241 posts, read 10,272,055 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Yeah, okay. I think it's perfectly fine to think you can willpower your way out of being an alcoholic. Go ahead, try it.

As far a Europeans go, they don't drink wine like water. And I don't care who drinks, and who doesn't. I have no problem serving alcohol at any party.

What I do care about, is when 24 year old people with the life experience of a gnat, proclaim that even though alcholism runs in both sides of their family, that it won't happen to them, because by gee, they're just oh too clever for that.

I guess I missed the announcement that txtqueen has found the cure for alcoholism - which is obviously Just Don't Fall For That Weakminded Bull****. Who knew?
Have you lived in Europe? Have you met Europeans? Most Italians and French (of ages 16 +) have wine on a daily basis. Does that make them alcoholics? Americans seem to have an issue with alcohol that no one else in the world has.

I think that there are many respected professionals who believe that alcoholism is a disease and many who think it isn't. I don't believe there is consensus one way or the other.
 
Old 04-29-2012, 01:10 PM
 
8,241 posts, read 10,272,055 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
I hate to break it to you, but yes, statistically speaking many European countries have much higher rates of alcoholism than the US.

WHO | World Health Organization
Who is defining 'alcoholism'?
 
Old 04-29-2012, 01:30 PM
 
5,852 posts, read 2,791,587 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Have you lived in Europe? Have you met Europeans? Most Italians and French (of ages 16 +) have wine on a daily basis. Does that make them alcoholics? Americans seem to have an issue with alcohol that no one else in the world has.

I think that there are many respected professionals who believe that alcoholism is a disease and many who think it isn't. I don't believe there is consensus one way or the other.
Oh for goodness' sakes. Yes I have lived in Europe. I am not an American.

Having wine on a daily basis does not make a person an alcoholic, and I never said it did. I have NO PROBLEM with people drinking. I don't care if you drink or if anybody else drinks, I have no issue with people having a drink at a birthday party.

I was responding to a particular post. Having a drink at a birthday party does not make you an alcoholic. Trust me, I don't throw that term around lightly. I believe most people that drink are not alcoholic, alcoholism is a serious affliction and the people that have it are on their way to being either dead or destitute by that point. Even heavy drinkers are not necessarily alcoholics.

You are either in a social circle that has a drink at every get together, it seems to me, or you aren't. I don't think there's anything wrong with either. If I was still drinking, and there was wine at a kid's party, I'd have one.
 
Old 04-29-2012, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Australia
4,008 posts, read 2,477,766 times
Reputation: 6535
I live in Australia and I never had alcohol at my kid's parties.

It's for kids, not adults. Having said that, I'm sure if their grandad was there he would be sitting in the corner with his beer because he did so every day, rain hail or shine.
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