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Old 05-15-2012, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I don't think that "forgetting" your child in the car is an accident. A parent has ONE job...that job is taking care of their child. I don't buy that it could happen to "anyone". I have 100% certainty that it would NEVER have happened to me.

An accident is something over which I have no control. Getting t-boned by a drunk driver is an accident. Slipping on a wet floor in a restaurant and dropping your baby is an accident. Getting bit by a dog at a park is an accident. Forgetting the most important person in the world to me in a locked car is not an accident. It's neglect.
Did you read the articles?? The parents don't forget. They think they've dropped their child off. They think their child is safe. It's not about forgetting but a malfunction in the brain that leads them to think they've done something they haven't.

BTDT. When dd was a baby, I was supposed to drop her off at day care instead of dh. I was tired and I normally did not drop her off. Out of habit I turned left out of the sub instead of right and drove all the way to work, on auto pilot, parked my car and got out. Fortunately, I saw her in the back seat. For a moment I was confused because I thought I'd dropped her off. Then I remembered I never made that right turn to the day care center. My heart was in my stomache. From that day forward, I kept a teddy bear in her car seat when she wasn't in it and in the front seat with me when she was to serve as a reminder that she was in the car seat. Once the brain gets on auto pilot, it takes something startling, like seeing the baby in the back seat, to jar it back onto the right track.

This is the baby I hovered over. A child I prayed for for 16 years. I can't explain how my brain checked off "Drop off baby" but it did. In my mind she was at day care until I saw her in the back seat. Once I made that left, I was on my way to work as if everything else was taken care of. My brain went on auto pilot. I thank God I looked into her carseat before walking away from that car. It's not negligence. It's something else. I like the swiss cheese analogy. That's what it felt like. Like that morning had fallen into a hole. The memories did not connect the way they should have.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:59 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,319,202 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Did you read the articles?? The parents don't forget. They think they've dropped their child off. They think their child is safe. It's not about forgetting but a malfunction in the brain that leads them to think they've done something they haven't.

BTDT. When dd was a baby, I was supposed to drop her off at day care instead of dh. I was tired and I normally did not drop her off. Out of habit I turned left out of the sub instead of right and drove all the way to work, on auto pilot, parked my car and got out. Fortunately, I saw her in the back seat. For a moment I was confused because I thought I'd dropped her off. Then I remembered I never made that right turn to the day care center. My heart was in my stomache. From that day forward, I kept a teddy bear in her car seat when she wasn't in it and in the front seat with me when she was to serve as a reminder that she was in the car seat. Once the brain gets on auto pilot, it takes something startling, like seeing the baby in the back seat, to jar it back onto the right track.

This is the baby I hovered over. A child I prayed for for 16 years. I can't explain how my brain checked off "Drop off baby" but it did. In my mind she was at day care until I saw her in the back seat. Once I made that left, I was on my way to work as if everything else was taken care of. My brain went on auto pilot. I thank God I looked into her carseat before walking away from that car. It's not negligence. It's something else. I like the swiss cheese analogy. That's what it felt like. Like that morning had fallen into a hole. The memories did not connect the way they should have.
Well, you obviously DID have at least one part of your brain focused on your baby. As a scientist (chemist?) you should be able to recognize a hypothesis when you see it- which is what the articles discuss. A hypothesis, not a fact.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Then, by all means lets let all child abusers out of jail. After all, it's their brains that made them do it.
A malfunction that causes a parent to believe they've already dropped their child off at day care is not the same as abuse. Try comparing apples to apples instead of apples to watermelons.

In my case it was as if my brain had inserted a memory of taking dd to day care. It was as if I had already done it. She was safe. Only I never dropped her off. I was, disoriented, when I saw her in the car. It took me a few seconds to figure out what happened. I was that convinced I'd already dropped her off. I, actually, had a false memory of dropping her off. It's as if I went from, "Need to drop off the baby" immediatly to "dropped the baby off, check"

I don't know if it was because I was tired or because I normally didn't drop her off or what but I thought she was at day care.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:07 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,319,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
A malfunction that causes a parent to believe they've already dropped their child off at day care is not the same as abuse. Try comparing apples to apples instead of apples to watermelons.

In my case it was as if my brain had inserted a memory of taking dd to day care. It was as if I had already done it. She was safe. Only I never dropped her off. I was, disoriented, when I saw her in the car. It took me a few seconds to figure out what happened. I was that convinced I'd already dropped her off. I, actually, had a false memory of dropping her off. It's as if I went from, "Need to drop off the baby" immediatly to "dropped the baby off, check"

I don't know if it was because I was tired or because I normally didn't drop her off or what but I thought she was at day care.
Again, it's a hypothesis. As such, it's open to debate. I don't believe it's a "brain malfunction". I think it's "not paying attention". I can't prove my hypothesis (I suppose it's more of an opinion because it's not testable), either.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Well, you obviously DID have at least one part of your brain focused on your baby. As a scientist (chemist?) you should be able to recognize a hypothesis when you see it- which is what the articles discuss. A hypothesis, not a fact.
Nope but neither is your hypothesis that doesn't have experts to back it up. I'll go with the on that has experts to back it up.

As I said before, the swiss cheese analogy fits what happened to me. It's as if my brain filled in a hole with memories that did not happen. I wasn't focused on her. I just happened to see her move her hand through the glass in the back window. She was rear facing so I coudln't see her in the seat.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:19 PM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,305,403 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
hypothetical implication of the findings is that a better understanding of how these circuits interact might lead to ways to help people avoid or unlearn bad habits.

An aneurysm is a physical condition. What the article, and you describe, is a hypothesis. These are in NO way comparable.
If this theory is proven correct and it does seem plausible, the two are very comparable.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:20 PM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,305,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
The burden of validation is on the person offering a hypothesis.
Debunk his hypothesis. If you are so very sure he is wrong, why?
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:21 PM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,305,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Then, by all means lets let all child abusers out of jail. After all, it's their brains that made them do it.
Proof?
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,580 posts, read 84,795,337 times
Reputation: 115105
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
I started this thread and I have reread all the posts several times. It has certainly been an eye opening experience for me. I think I am a bit more open minded about how such a tragedy could happen to anybody- even the ones of us who say it would NEVER HAPPEN TO ME.

This is the sort of thing which happens only to the other guy. Well there sure are a lot of other guys in this world. I am going to do some more research on how "punishment" is handled in these situations. How horrible to be responsible for the death of one child and then be put away in prison and not be able to care of any other you may have at home.

I'm not so sure this happens to what a lot of us what to think are irresponsible parents. Some may be but now I can certainly understand how some circumstances can lead to a person completely forgetting about a quiet child in the back seat.

I don't usually change my mind about something like this but today I have. I feel I have grown in some way because of this discussion. Thank you all for your input.
Same here, no kudzu. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the first time I heard of this happening, I was so angry at the father who had driven to work and forgot to drop off his baby and his baby died. It was somewhere here in the NY/NJ metro area. I figured he just didn't care enough about his baby to think of her. In retrospect think my anger may have been colored by the fact that I had a small child and a less than reliable husband at the time, and could picture HIM doing something like that out of not caring enough.

Over the years I heard of this type of tragedy happening again and still wondered how something like that could happen, but this article and these stories made me feel as if it's something that could have happened to me if the circumstances fell into place.

As a working mom--with a kid who never required more than seven hours of sleep at one time--those first two years of my daughters life are a fog in my mind, with all the cumulative lack of sleep and responsibility and more things to do than time available in the day to do them. Making just one life-changing mistake could have been so easy.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,903,743 times
Reputation: 2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Again, it's a hypothesis. As such, it's open to debate. I don't believe it's a "brain malfunction". I think it's "not paying attention". I can't prove my hypothesis (I suppose it's more of an opinion because it's not testable), either.
Just so you know, false memory research has been going on for 30+ years in psychology research. It is not a new phenomenon or a newly studied phenomenon, even if the application to the "forgetting the child" scenario is a new application. Humans have the ability to confabulate very specific details of things that never occurred. Saul Kassin's research springs to mind, although his work is on false confessions, jury memory, and other false memories as they apply to the legal system, rather than to the situation described in the OP.
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