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For one, many kids have had mixed daycare studies...how do you factor in those kids...maybe the ones who were at home with mom for a year, then went to a center daycare for a while...or any other sort of combination.
As for the "trained" dcp, that suggests that every daycare worker comes to work with a positive attituded and is engaged in what they do, which isn't always the case.
How does a 2 or 3 year old really even have the verbal skills to "rock the boat" whether it is with the dcp or grandma? How do they even conceptualize that things aren't as mom hopes they are?
I'm having trouble relocating the study (it's been a while and, apparently, there is now a lot on the internet about improving kith and kin care, which, by itself indicates that there were/are issues) but have found others mentioning the issues with kith and kin care such as this:
"However, the study found that the quality of care for children placed in family child care and kith and kin arrangements was inferior to the settings observed in the larger community. Interestingly, though, parents who placed their children with kith and kin reported the most satisfaction with their arrangements, due in large part to schedule flexibility, emphasis on individual attention, and the security some mothers feel when their children are in the care of a friend or relative. "
I remember the reasons given in the original study I read. They speculated that it was that kith and kin viewed providing child care as a favor and often did little more than baby sit while mothers didn't want to rock the boat with friends and relatives who were doing this favor for them so they did not advocate for their children (look at the OP in this thread. She's afraid to rock the boat because she might have to pay more when this is, clearly, not a good situation for the child.). As the link above notes, mothers often feel their children are better off with kith and kin even though the research doesn't support this. Humans have a tendency not to see past their pardigms. We see what supports them while ignoring what flies in the face of them. If we want to believe that grandma watching the kids is better than a DCP, we will see the things that support that and ignore the ones that don't.
I'll keep looking as I have time. I know it's out there but there is so much out there about improving kith and kin care that I'm having trouble finding it. I get hundreds of hits on how to improve kith and kin care for each search. I'll try the database at the university. That may be where I found the original study. Unfortunately, I lost my hard drive less than a year ago so I don't have my old searches saved on this one.
I know it's there....somewhere in the haystack... I'll find it eventually.
Oh, and it's not the child who rocks the boat. It's mom. Trust me, moms have no issue with advocating for their children with a hired dcp (or teacher as I know personally). I've seen IRL where they won't when it's a relative or friend providing the child care. There is this belief that a friend or relative MUST be better than a stranger so mothers seem to tolerate more from kith and kin than they would from a center or licensed DCP IME. It actually makes logical sense that it would be this way. When we're paying a trained professional for a service, we demand more than we do from a friend helping us out with the same service.
As I said before, the question to ask is is are the kith and kin providing care for my child doing the kinds of things a trained dcp would do or that I would do if home with my child? If the answer is yes, there's nothing to worry about. If they are just "baby-sitting"...perhaps there is. I know, as a working mom, that it's important that our care providers do the things we are too short on time to do or our kids will miss out. I didn't need to do play dates for my kids because they had them at day care, my dcp made up for some of the reading to my child I didn't have time to do (I still read to them but I could rest assured they were read to as often if not more than they would have been if I was home because our dcp did too). Our dcp provided age appropriate learning experiences for my child that I did not have to duplicate at home unless I wanted to. Things I would have done at home if I were home that I often didn't have time for because I worked. I didn't have to worry if we didn't have time to make it to the park or the pool because my kids already went with the dcp. A good dcp is worth her weight in gold.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-30-2012 at 10:11 AM..
Being a physicist doesn't mean you know squat about child development. I know lots of smart people who lack common sense. I'd go with grandma who used to be a montessori teacher (our ex dcp for example) over grandma who used to be a physicist in a heart beat. My grandmother was an intelligent woman but I don't remember her ever reading to us when she "watched" (that's what she called it) us. I don't recall her ever playing developmental games with us. She "watched" us while mom worked. Period. All too often, this is what kith and kin care is. Unfortunately, if mom were home, odds have it, she would have used some of the extra time for developmental activities not because she has superior knowledge but simply because there'd be so much time to fill. Friends and relatives often just go about their business while the kids play.
Depending upon the age of the child, it is NOT bad for caregivers to be doing adult activities while the child watches (infant) or plays (toddler/preschooler). Adults do not have to keep children entertained and in fact, a bit of boredom can go a long way in terms of making kids able to do their own creative activities.
Now, I admit that in western society, this is less likely to happen, but here is a good way to bring up children. We should not be *child-centered.* Children should adapt to their environment and learn from the adults around them and from other children. If your baby is okay, she is entertaining herself, then let her be. It is important for her to learn to amuse herself and to be allowed to follow her own interests, intuitions and curiosity.
I'm having trouble relocating the study (it's been a while and, apparently, there is now a lot on the internet about improving kith and kin care, which, by itself indicates that there were/are issues) but have found others mentioning the issues with kith and kin care such as this:
"However, the study found that the quality of care for children placed in family child care and kith and kin arrangements was inferior to the settings observed in the larger community. Interestingly, though, parents who placed their children with kith and kin reported the most satisfaction with their arrangements, due in large part to schedule flexibility, emphasis on individual attention, and the security some mothers feel when their children are in the care of a friend or relative. "
I remember the reasons given in the original study I read. They speculated that it was that kith and kin viewed providing child care as a favor and often did little more than baby sit while mothers didn't want to rock the boat with friends and relatives who were doing this favor for them so they did not advocate for their children (look at the OP in this thread. She's afraid to rock the boat because she might have to pay more when this is, clearly, not a good situation for the child.). As the link above notes, mothers often feel their children are better off with kith and kin even though the research doesn't support this. Humans have a tendency not to see past their pardigms. We see what supports them while ignoring what flies in the face of them. If we want to believe that grandma watching the kids is better than a DCP, we will see the things that support that and ignore the ones that don't.
I'll keep looking as I have time. I know it's out there but there is so much out there about improving kith and kin care that I'm having trouble finding it. I get hundreds of hits on how to improve kith and kin care for each search. I'll try the database at the university. That may be where I found the original study. Unfortunately, I lost my hard drive less than a year ago so I don't have my old searches saved on this one.
I know it's there....somewhere in the haystack... I'll find it eventually.
Oh, and it's not the child who rocks the boat. It's mom. Trust me, moms have no issue with advocating for their children with a hired dcp (or teacher as I know personally). I've seen IRL where they won't when it's a relative or friend providing the child care. There is this belief that a friend or relative MUST be better than a stranger so mothers seem to tolerate more from kith and kin than they would from a center or licensed DCP IME. It actually makes logical sense that it would be this way. When we're paying a trained professional for a service, we demand more than we do from a friend helping us out with the same service.
As I said before, the question to ask is is are the kith and kin providing care for my child doing the kinds of things a trained dcp would do or that I would do if home with my child? If the answer is yes, there's nothing to worry about. If they are just "baby-sitting"...perhaps there is. I know, as a working mom, that it's important that our care providers do the things we are too short on time to do or our kids will miss out. I didn't need to do play dates for my kids because they had them at day care, my dcp made up for some of the reading to my child I didn't have time to do (I still read to them but I could rest assured they were read to as often if not more than they would have been if I was home because our dcp did too). Our dcp provided age appropriate learning experiences for my child that I did not have to duplicate at home unless I wanted to. Things I would have done at home if I were home that I often didn't have time for because I worked. I didn't have to worry if we didn't have time to make it to the park or the pool because my kids already went with the dcp. A good dcp is worth her weight in gold.
In an earlier post I pointed out multiple other factors that could come into play. I also pointed out that a child could be cared for by a grand parent for a couple years, then go to preschool. The posts here have been very "all or nothing." While I strongly believe in preschool for 4 year olds, I see nothing wrong with grand parents babysitting up to that point. It completely depends on the grand parents, of course. I would rely on my knowledge of the individual relative over a study, of course. A study doesn't tell me anything about how MY child will do being cared for by MY mother, for example.
I would just kindly tell my mother that we can't afford her services except for on special occasions. For all she knows even if you can afford it you could be funneling a large part of your money into college funds, trust funds, and life insurance in case something happens to you or your spouse. Raising a kid and providing ample security are big expenses.
Thank her and show sincere gratitude but she should be willing to watch her grandchild once in a while for free. Family comes before money.
We suggest that there is little strong evidence to suggest that children are substantially advantaged or disadvantaged by being looked after by their grandparents or other informal childcarers. This applies to both educational outcomes (vocabulary development and school readiness) and socio-emotional outcomes. Where some small associations were found between childcare in the three years of life and outcomes at age 3, these do not appear to last long and were not apparent at age 5.
Depending upon the age of the child, it is NOT bad for caregivers to be doing adult activities while the child watches (infant) or plays (toddler/preschooler). Adults do not have to keep children entertained and in fact, a bit of boredom can go a long way in terms of making kids able to do their own creative activities.
Now, I admit that in western society, this is less likely to happen, but here is a good way to bring up children. We should not be *child-centered.* Children should adapt to their environment and learn from the adults around them and from other children. If your baby is okay, she is entertaining herself, then let her be. It is important for her to learn to amuse herself and to be allowed to follow her own interests, intuitions and curiosity.
We are, definitely, too child centered in the west. Other cultures actually respect adults and children seek to become adults. Here, it's the other way around. We worship youth and resist growing up.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with children playing while adults do adult things but, in our society, a certain amount of developmental activities is called for not because kids, inherently, need it but because it's so commonly done that your child is placed at a disadvantage if you don't. I know, as a working mom, that I did not have time for all the things that stay at home moms did but I didn't need to because our dcp did some of them. She picked up the slack, so to speak. Slack that never should have needed to be picked up but what people routinely do ends up becomming necessary here. I never said I agreed with this. I just acknowledge the necessity in our society.
For example, when I was a teen, no one prepped for the ACT. Then some parents started sending their kids to prep programs to put them at an advantage. Now so many prep, you put your child at a disadvantage if you don't. Sports are the same way. Used to be most kids started sports in middle school. Now so many start at 4 that your child is at a severe disadvantage if you wait until middle school. Parenting has become competitive to the point we have to compete to keep up. I wish we could go back to the days when I was raised. No one worried about baby doing develomental activities at 1, reading at 3, about gymnastics at 4, etc, etc, etc.... Prepping, at all levels, is now so common, no one is at an advantage for doing it. The kids who don't are just at a disadvantage. Unfortunately, this boulder is rolling down hill too fast to stop. It's all part of the mommy competition now.
I hear the mompetition has moved up to the big leagues with moms taking leaves from work to "help" their children apply for colleges, write the right essays and get the right recommendations. It just moves from one level to the next. We started with test prepping and backed up to reading at 3 and sign language before babies are 1. When we found we couldn't do anything at birth, we moved to the college setting. I hear colleges now have offices just for dealing with parents who are trying to give their ADULT children any advantage they can. It's rediculous if you ask me but you either play by the rules or your child is left behind.
I have to wonder what's next though. Mom showing up at the job interview??? Calling your boss because you've been treated unfairly???? When will the madness stop?
We are, definitely, too child centered in the west. Other cultures actually respect adults and children seek to become adults. Here, it's the other way around. We worship youth and resist growing up.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with children playing while adults do adult things but, in our society, a certain amount of developmental activities is called for not because kids, inherently, need it but because it's so commonly done that your child is placed at a disadvantage if you don't. I know, as a working mom, that I did not have time for all the things that stay at home moms did but I didn't need to because our dcp did some of them. She picked up the slack, so to speak. Slack that never should have needed to be picked up but what people routinely do ends up becomming necessary here. I never said I agreed with this. I just acknowledge the necessity in our society.
For example, when I was a teen, no one prepped for the ACT. Then some parents started sending their kids to prep programs to put them at an advantage. Now so many prep, you put your child at a disadvantage if you don't. Sports are the same way. Used to be most kids started sports in middle school. Now so many start at 4 that your child is at a severe disadvantage if you wait until middle school. Parenting has become competitive to the point we have to compete to keep up. I wish we could go back to the days when I was raised. No one worried about baby doing develomental activities at 1, reading at 3, about gymnastics at 4, etc, etc, etc.... Prepping, at all levels, is now so common, no one is at an advantage for doing it. The kids who don't are just at a disadvantage. Unfortunately, this boulder is rolling down hill too fast to stop. It's all part of the mommy competition now.
I hear the mompetition has moved up to the big leagues with moms taking leaves from work to "help" their children apply for colleges, write the right essays and get the right recommendations. It just moves from one level to the next. We started with test prepping and backed up to reading at 3 and sign language before babies are 1. When we found we couldn't do anything at birth, we moved to the college setting. I hear colleges now have offices just for dealing with parents who are trying to give their ADULT children any advantage they can. It's rediculous if you ask me but you either play by the rules or your child is left behind.
I have to wonder what's next though. Mom showing up at the job interview??? Calling your boss because you've been treated unfairly???? When will the madness stop?
What on earth does mompetition etc have to do with the OP's dilemma?
I keep a baby 3 days a week- Nanny(dad's Mom) keeps her 1 day a week and they pay her only so she will keep her undivided attention on the grandchild and do nothing else- i think it is ridiculous- but whatever.. My mother would NOT ask for money to keep her grandchild- I can't imagine that!
any update on this?
I'm having trouble relocating the study (it's been a while and, apparently, there is now a lot on the internet about improving kith and kin care, which, by itself indicates that there were/are issues) but have found others mentioning the issues with kith and kin care such as this:
"However, the study found that the quality of care for children placed in family child care and kith and kin arrangements was inferior to the settings observed in the larger community. Interestingly, though, parents who placed their children with kith and kin reported the most satisfaction with their arrangements, due in large part to schedule flexibility, emphasis on individual attention, and the security some mothers feel when their children are in the care of a friend or relative. "
I remember the reasons given in the original study I read. They speculated that it was that kith and kin viewed providing child care as a favor and often did little more than baby sit while mothers didn't want to rock the boat with friends and relatives who were doing this favor for them so they did not advocate for their children (look at the OP in this thread. She's afraid to rock the boat because she might have to pay more when this is, clearly, not a good situation for the child.). As the link above notes, mothers often feel their children are better off with kith and kin even though the research doesn't support this. Humans have a tendency not to see past their pardigms. We see what supports them while ignoring what flies in the face of them. If we want to believe that grandma watching the kids is better than a DCP, we will see the things that support that and ignore the ones that don't.
I know it's there....somewhere in the haystack... I'll find it eventually.
Oh, and it's not the child who rocks the boat. It's mom. Trust me, moms have no issue with advocating for their children with a hired dcp (or teacher as I know personally). I've seen IRL where they won't when it's a relative or friend providing the child care. There is this belief that a friend or relative MUST be better than a stranger so mothers seem to tolerate more from kith and kin than they would from a center or licensed DCP IME. It actually makes logical sense that it would be this way. When we're paying a trained professional for a service, we demand more than we do from a friend helping us out with the same service.
As I said before, the question to ask is is are the kith and kin providing care for my child doing the kinds of things a trained dcp would do or that I would do if home with my child? If the answer is yes, there's nothing to worry about. If they are just "baby-sitting"...perhaps there is. I know, as a working mom, that it's important that our care providers do the things we are too short on time to do or our kids will miss out. I didn't need to do play dates for my kids because they had them at day care, my dcp made up for some of the reading to my child I didn't have time to do (I still read to them but I could rest assured they were read to as often if not more than they would have been if I was home because our dcp did too). Our dcp provided age appropriate learning experiences for my child that I did not have to duplicate at home unless I wanted to. Things I would have done at home if I were home that I often didn't have time for because I worked. I didn't have to worry if we didn't have time to make it to the park or the pool because my kids already went with the dcp. A good dcp is worth her weight in gold.
To the extent I advocated for my children with a daycare provider, it was with situations that wouldn't have occurred with grandparents anyway. Sick kids that had no business being at daycare. Kids that were biting, and overly aggressive.
We are, definitely, too child centered in the west. Other cultures actually respect adults and children seek to become adults. Here, it's the other way around. We worship youth and resist growing up.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with children playing while adults do adult things but, in our society, a certain amount of developmental activities is called for not because kids, inherently, need it but because it's so commonly done that your child is placed at a disadvantage if you don't. I know, as a working mom, that I did not have time for all the things that stay at home moms did but I didn't need to because our dcp did some of them. She picked up the slack, so to speak. Slack that never should have needed to be picked up but what people routinely do ends up becomming necessary here. I never said I agreed with this. I just acknowledge the necessity in our society.
For example, when I was a teen, no one prepped for the ACT. Then some parents started sending their kids to prep programs to put them at an advantage. Now so many prep, you put your child at a disadvantage if you don't. Sports are the same way. Used to be most kids started sports in middle school. Now so many start at 4 that your child is at a severe disadvantage if you wait until middle school. Parenting has become competitive to the point we have to compete to keep up. I wish we could go back to the days when I was raised. No one worried about baby doing develomental activities at 1, reading at 3, about gymnastics at 4, etc, etc, etc.... Prepping, at all levels, is now so common, no one is at an advantage for doing it. The kids who don't are just at a disadvantage. Unfortunately, this boulder is rolling down hill too fast to stop. It's all part of the mommy competition now.
I hear the mompetition has moved up to the big leagues with moms taking leaves from work to "help" their children apply for colleges, write the right essays and get the right recommendations. It just moves from one level to the next. We started with test prepping and backed up to reading at 3 and sign language before babies are 1. When we found we couldn't do anything at birth, we moved to the college setting. I hear colleges now have offices just for dealing with parents who are trying to give their ADULT children any advantage they can. It's rediculous if you ask me but you either play by the rules or your child is left behind.
I have to wonder what's next though. Mom showing up at the job interview??? Calling your boss because you've been treated unfairly???? When will the madness stop?
I hear what you are saying, but I think you are overemphasizing how much academic prep is really appropriate or even beneficial for kids in a daycare setting. No matter how much we push reading, the simple fact is that some won't read until a later age, and that it still has nothing to do with academic success later on.
For most parents who find this stuff important, they are usually as capable, if not more so, than the average dcp, or preschool teacher in seeking out these sort of experiences.
I think there are tradeoffs in every potential choice. If I were OP, this sort of reasoning wouldn't tip my decision in a certain direction.
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