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uuhm! Very interesting. I think some people view homosexuality like beastiality, phidephelia, incest, or something so perverted that it has to be cured. More importantly, no matter if a person supports homosexuality or is totally against it, everyone should have a right to their own opionion and way of life.
I see a kind of reverse discrimination when it comes to homosexuality where those who believe or feel that it wrong, sick, perverted are considered homophobic. I think incest and molesting kids is sick and wrong. No one should lable me racist, evil, ignorant, or unkind.
I prefered Bill Clinton's postion. "Don't ask don't tell" . The Obama's said "it does Not matter who you love". I say it does...your student, patient, neighbor, a child, family member, or someone of the same sex. And I am not homophobic or hateful, I just believe in the Bible's definition of marriage and sex - ' a man and a woman' No one should be upset because I believe what I feel is right. Whats worse Saddam and Gamorah or Romney?
Let me see if I can understand what you are saying.
You want to be able to call gay and lesbian people some pretty nasty ignorant things, but you don't think they should have the right to tell you that what you are saying about them is pretty nasty and ignorant. And you think this is somehow discriminating against you.
Um okay....
BTW, what is 'phidephelia'? Is that some kind of Philidelphia Cream Cheese fetish? Never heard of it.
As for your last sentence, I have no clue what you are referring to.
Looks like we have some paid shills on this thread.
Truth is counseling can be affective, that's why they are against it. Turning gays into the norm means turning the foundation of society, the family structure, on it's head. Destroying morality and family is among the goals of the Marxist Radicals. It is part of the fundamental transformation of this country and the NWO.
Some are born gay, but I believe most are just psychologically screwed up and counseling in the right setting can help them. You'll find that most gays are unhappy, always complaining and fighting for one cause or another, searching for something to give their lives meaning. It's sad, and they need help.
Quote:
In his book Coming Out Straight, psychotherapist and author Richard Cohen writes, “A man is looking for his father’s love through another man, and a woman is looking for her mother’s love through another woman.” This is why many people (that’s many, not all) who experience homosexual attractions report poor relationships with their same-sex parent or primary caregiver while growing up. There is little controversy surrounding the belief that a child’s parents play a significant role in his or her emotional development, yet when theorists suggest that the same applies to sexual development, they sometimes receive opposition from those in the lesbian and gay community who believe that sexuality is determined purely by genetics.
Looks like we have some paid shills on this thread.
Truth is counseling can be affective, that's why they are against it. Turning gays into the norm means turning the foundation of society, the family structure, on it's head. Destroying morality and family is among the goals of the Marxist Radicals. It is part of the fundamental transformation of this country and the NWO.
Some are born gay, but I believe most are just psychologically screwed up and counseling in the right setting can help them. You'll find that most gays are unhappy, always complaining and fighting for one cause or another, searching for something to give their lives meaning. It's sad, and they need help.
You do realize that 'Sexual Identity Therapy' just helps a religiously motivated person with a homosexual/bisexual orientation cope with all the problems that might be involved with a life of celibacy or marrying someone of the opposite sex? It doesn't promote the idea that sexual orientation can be changed or 'cured', even if that's what these people really want.
From what I understand, many go on to accepting themselves as gay or lesbian in the end anyway and just adapt their religious beliefs. I linked to a recent study by evangelical Christian psychologists which showed that even with religiously motivated people, being married to someone of the opposite sex does not change their sexual orientation. It showed that the attractions to the same sex actually increased over time for the gay/lesbian partner in these couples in a mixed orientation marriage. That could be a real problem for them to cope with.
I suspect that would be the case - in most cases. My concern is more for the teens/young adults who haven't had the benefit of time, experience and hindsight - what they want for themselves (to become ungay) is very real to them. The strong, negative, even mocking disdain for the therapy that gives them any hope of doing that seems very harsh. And what about the people who honestly believe that this therapy has actually worked for them - should they just sit down and shut up?
I just think we all have to be careful how we come across to these young people. They are not "bad" for wanting to change. They are not "bad" for not wanting to live a lie - marrying the opposite sex, even though they are gay. In fact, if anything they are very brave to even admit these feelings.
As you've pointed out, the facts are what they are. I do get that. I'm not sure that I buy the *zero* percent chance, though. Not all people are wired exactly the same way, so maybe for some people it is possible to change their sexual orientations. Although I do agree that it would be a futile thing for most people to try. But a little hope can go a long, long way...
I suspect that would be the case - in most cases. My concern is more for the teens/young adults who haven't had the benefit of time, experience and hindsight - what they want for themselves (to become ungay) is very real to them.
Do you understand that what they want is impossible? Do you really support lying to this person, misleading them & giving them false hope? What do you think happens to this person when they realize that this therapy will never do what it promised, no matter how desperate they are for it? People have put their heart & souls into trying to become "ungay" & the therapy did nothing but perpetuate hopelessness & shame because the "therapy" never did what it claimed it would do. How can you support that?
Quote:
They are not "bad" for wanting to change. They are not "bad" for not wanting to live a lie - marrying the opposite sex, even though they are gay. In fact, if anything they are very brave to even admit these feelings.
No one said they were bad & there is plenty of support out there for these people.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 10-05-2012 at 05:46 AM..
Let me see if I can understand what you are saying.
You want to be able to call gay and lesbian people some pretty nasty ignorant things, but you don't think they should have the right to tell you that what you are saying about them is pretty nasty and ignorant. And you think this is somehow discriminating against you.
Um okay....:
Great posts and links, Jaymax. I am trying really hard to twist myself around to put myself in the position some of those on this thread hold. What I keep coming back to is that this is not belief vs. belief, where all things are equal. Licensed therapists don't practice based upon belief, they practice based upon what has been empirically studied.
To the best of my knowledge, no one is saying further research cannot be done to try and find support for the belief that one can change sexual orientation through therapy (I don't believe this is true based on the evidence that already exists, but for the sake of argument). In the (IMO, unlikely) event that an empirically supported treatment that changes one's sexual orientation could be developed, we could argue about right to choose that treatment; then it would be a question of belief choosing between empirically supported treatments with opposing goals. As it stands, there is NO treatment that exists that changes sexual orientation. People are arguing about something that does not exist. The people peddling the "therapy" in the OP are subject to the professional guidelines of practice, if they want to be licensed, same as any other therapist in any area of specialty. That is not about respecting different religious beliefs, it is about acknowledging the empirical data to date and the professional code of conduct of licensed therapists. I am uncertain that everyone understands this.
ETA: I wonder if those arguing about people's right to choose a therapy that has shown no evidence that it does what it claims and has been demonstrated to do harm would be making the same argument if the topic in question was a depression treatment or an anxiety treatment. I suspect not.
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 10-05-2012 at 05:58 AM..
I see a kind of reverse discrimination when it comes to homosexuality where those who believe or feel that it wrong, sick, perverted are considered homophobic.
Reversed discrimination would be homosexuals lobbying against heterosexual marriage, & not allowing heterosexuals in the military to talk to, about, carry photos of, or even journal about their loved ones/family.
Pointing out prejudice & bigotry is not reverse discrimination, but callin' it like they seez it.
I suspect that would be the case - in most cases. My concern is more for the teens/young adults who haven't had the benefit of time, experience and hindsight - what they want for themselves (to become ungay) is very real to them. The strong, negative, even mocking disdain for the therapy that gives them any hope of doing that seems very harsh. And what about the people who honestly believe that this therapy has actually worked for them - should they just sit down and shut up?
I just think we all have to be careful how we come across to these young people. They are not "bad" for wanting to change. They are not "bad" for not wanting to live a lie - marrying the opposite sex, even though they are gay. In fact, if anything they are very brave to even admit these feelings.
As you've pointed out, the facts are what they are. I do get that. I'm not sure that I buy the *zero* percent chance, though. Not all people are wired exactly the same way, so maybe for some people it is possible to change their sexual orientations. Although I do agree that it would be a futile thing for most people to try. But a little hope can go a long, long way...
Of course they are not 'bad' for wanting to change their orientation. No-one is saying that. It's not their fault that they are homosexual and it's not their fault they were raised to hate 'gays' and believe all sorts of homophobic vilifying misinformation about gay people. It would be incredibly confusing and stressful for them when they realize they are gay. But offering false hope and setting them up for failure is the very worst thing someone can do.
There's no valid scientific evidence that anyone can change their sexual orientation. That does not mean that someone cannot change their behavior or get married to someone of the oppoiste sex if that's the life they want for themselves.
Even some conservative Christian psychologists are now admitting that. The honest ethical ones anyway.
What is painfully obvious is that there is a *need* for an acceptable therapy for these people. The mainstream stuff is not what they want for themselves. It doesn't jive with their beliefs and they do not want to be talked into feeling better about being gay. Nor do they want to live as a heterosexual "even though they're gay".
I do feel for them and I do think they deserve to have a treatment that is respectful of their beliefs.
Yes -- why not have the freedom to have therapy? If it doesn't work and some insist it cannot work - then what's the big deal? Let people have the freedom. As for people not being able to change, why did Anne Heche change?
And people will go from sexual to asexual all the time, and vice versa, people do become celebate for whatever reasons they have.
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